• ℹ️ Heads up...

    This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.

Virgin Trains lose West Coast Franchise

Now that I'm at a computer for the first time in about a week, I can finally expand on my view of this whole thing.

Virgin are, in my experience of travelling with them, a frankly excellent TOC. Their service is good, and the trains are excellent. I have only been on their Pendolinos, but they are genuinely very good. I cannot fault them in any way at all. First, on the other hand? Well, let's see. As with Islander, I use FGW on a regular basis, seeing as I live in the South West, and they're not all that wonderful. I've spent more time on their HSTs than I want to, and the only long-distance trains they run to the South West are HSTs. Their services are often late, the trains look awfully dated, and they're often left dirty from previous journeys. They have a fleet of five Adelante DMUs, but they're only used on the Cotswold Line. Whilst we're on the subject of rolling stock, the new Intercity Express Programme will introduce electric trains to the GWML for the first time beyond Airport Junction. These trains will be a mix of full electric and bio-mode diesel-electric trains. And guess what? Electrification will not happen past Bristol down into the South West, and there will be no electrification past Newbury on the Reading to Taunton line. That's not the main issue. The main issue, for me, is that Devon and Cornwall will apparently not see this new rolling stock, leaving us with nice and grotty HSTs with Mk3 carriages. How absolutely wonderful. ::)

Anyway, back to the WCML. Virgin deserve to keep it, they really do. I have not been on a better TOC in this country. (SNCF are good, but they're French, so I'm ignoring them here. :p) First have high fares and poor service on their other franchises (FGW, FCC, First Hull Trains), and as so many others have pointed out, the highest bidder won. It should not always be about the money. It should be about the company who will provide the best service and who has the best reputation. First has neither of these, in my view. Plus, with NXEC, they had to hand the franchise back after not having the money to run it (presumably from initially paying too much for it), and I fear that First may end up having to do the same. I'm fearful for the Greater Western franchise when it's renewed next year. First and NX should not in my opinion, get it, so it's either Arriva & DB or Stagecoach. I wouldn't mind either of them tbh.

Oh, and the petition for a Commons debate on the WCML franchise has now passed 50,000! :D
 
Virgin Trains lose West Coast Franchise

Stagecoach are a good operator when they put money into it. East Midland's Trains are well run and I've always had a good experience travelling with them. National Express however are a piss poor excuse for a train company. There was the fiasco with the ECML and the Anglia franchise under 'one' and 'NXEA' was pretty awful. Trains were on time and staff were cheery but rolling stock was (and still is) dilapidated and old...
 
NXEA was shoddily run and the services were awful. I seem to remember they said they wouldn't clean graffiti off trains and would instead focus their efforts on customer service, or something to that effect. That seemingly didn't work as they always languished down with First at the bottom of satisfaction tables. The trains were filthy inside and out, and almost always turned up late.
Contrast that to their replacement, Greater Anglia, run by Abellio (a subsidiary of Nederlanse Spoorwegen who also jointly run Northern Rail and Merseyrail). Already the trains I've been on were cleaner and turned up on time, despite the fact that the current franchise is ridiculously short.
 
Virgin Trains lose West Coast Franchise

I usually experienced trains to be on time under NXEA but the trains were crap. Usually bearable from Norwich but anything within Greater London just looked horrific tbh... I haven't noticed massive changes with Abellio but I wouldn't expect to with the stupid length franchise. Things will hopefully change with the 15 year one up for grabs soon.

Something I think that affects thoughts on a TOC is actually train livery. If its interesting and kept up well people will be under the opinion the trains are well kept and clean. NXEA used boring blue trains with a white strip down them as they couldn't be bothered to paint more than a handful in the proper livery. A plain mucky blue colour gives an unclean impression while a jazzy and brighter livery gives the public the impression that the trains are better.

Of course, livery has nothing to do with the actual service so it's fairly by the by.
 
Okay, so for starters I'm not a railway enthusiast in the slightest, so I have no idea when it comes to acronyms or train types or whatever...

I use FGW several times on an almost-daily basis, mostly the little local services between Weston and Bristol; these are admittedly not the nicest of trains, but they're regular, I wouldn't describe most of them as unpleasant, overcrowding is (for me) an infrequent problem, and staff are almost always bubbly, enthusiastic, and friendly. Whenever I travel on the Weston -> Paddington trains, I always find them an absolutely delightful experience - clean, comfortable carriages, a usually well-stocked on board buffet service and TVs in Carriage D (which are now FREE, awesomely!), and I would say quite reasonably priced as well. This is why I'm slightly confused by the horror with which most people seem to speak about them!

I've heard nothing but praise for Virgin's service, but I'm very intrigued as to how much of a colossal impact this is actually going to have on the West Coast line? Are megaly drastic changes going to be made? (excuse my ignorance!)
 
From wikipedia
After the announcement that FirstGroup had been awarded the West Coast franchise over Virgin, an e-petition was created to urge the government to reconsider its decision and to debate the bids in the House of Commons before 28th August 2012. The petition was set up independently, but backed by Virgin, and has attracted large support; gaining 50,000 signatures within 2 days. The 100,000 signatures required for the petition to be debated in parliament has now been surpassed. The petition has also been backed by many celebrities including Lord Alan Sugar, Jamie Oliver, Mo Farah, Amanda Holden and Derren Brown as well as recieving backing from MP Tom Harris - Shadow Environment Minister and former Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport.[49]
Click to expand...
so it may not be true...
 
Jonathan said:
Now that I'm at a computer for the first time in about a week, I can finally expand on my view of this whole thing.

Virgin are, in my experience of travelling with them, a frankly excellent TOC. Their service is good, and the trains are excellent. I have only been on their Pendolinos, but they are genuinely very good. I cannot fault them in any way at all. First, on the other hand? Well, let's see. As with Islander, I use FGW on a regular basis, seeing as I live in the South West, and they're not all that wonderful. I've spent more time on their HSTs than I want to, and the only long-distance trains they run to the South West are HSTs. Their services are often late, the trains look awfully dated, and they're often left dirty from previous journeys. They have a fleet of five Adelante DMUs, but they're only used on the Cotswold Line. Whilst we're on the subject of rolling stock, the new Intercity Express Programme will introduce electric trains to the GWML for the first time beyond Airport Junction. These trains will be a mix of full electric and bio-mode diesel-electric trains. And guess what? Electrification will not happen past Bristol down into the South West, and there will be no electrification past Newbury on the Reading to Taunton line. That's not the main issue. The main issue, for me, is that Devon and Cornwall will apparently not see this new rolling stock, leaving us with nice and grotty HSTs with Mk3 carriages. How absolutely wonderful. ::)

Anyway, back to the WCML. Virgin deserve to keep it, they really do. I have not been on a better TOC in this country. (SNCF are good, but they're French, so I'm ignoring them here. :p) First have high fares and poor service on their other franchises (FGW, FCC, First Hull Trains), and as so many others have pointed out, the highest bidder won. It should not always be about the money. It should be about the company who will provide the best service and who has the best reputation. First has neither of these, in my view. Plus, with NXEC, they had to hand the franchise back after not having the money to run it (presumably from initially paying too much for it), and I fear that First may end up having to do the same. I'm fearful for the Greater Western franchise when it's renewed next year. First and NX should not in my opinion, get it, so it's either Arriva & DB or Stagecoach. I wouldn't mind either of them tbh.

Oh, and the petition for a Commons debate on the WCML franchise has now passed 50,000! :D
Click to expand...

No they will it will be a bi-mode train that will operate.
 
The new trains may be bi-mode, but this article states that initially, they will not run from London to Penzance. However, there is the potential for further sets to be ordered which could work the line to Penzance.
 
So we're at 110,000+ on the petition... It can now possibly be debated by the Government. However, there is nothing forcing them to do so and the contracts could be signed as early as next Wednesday...
 
Re: Virgin Trains lose West Coast Franchise

I don't think any TOC should get the franchise and networkrail should run it themselves.

I am biased tho as I work for networkrail and would love to travel to london for free :)

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
 
Branson is supposedly offering to run the WCML for free to allow Parliament time to debate the matter.

Mirror said:
'I'll run West Coast Main Line for free': Branson offers help to give MPs time to debate trains franchise deal

Sir Richard is also pressing for an independent audit of the Department for Transport's decision over the £10 billion deal

Sir Richard Branson today offered to run the West Coast Main Line for free to allow Parliament time to scrutinise an "outrageous" decision to award the franchise to rival FirstGroup.

The entrepreneur, who has claimed that FirstGroup's bid will lead to "almost certain bankruptcy", made a last-ditch appeal to the Government to delay signing the 13-year contract on Tuesday.

He said Virgin Trains and Stagecoach would operate the joint venture on a not-for-profit basis or donate profits to charity if the franchise needed to be extended beyond December for a few months to allow Parliament to investigate the decision.

Sir Richard is also pressing for an independent audit of the Department for Transport's decision over the £10 billion deal.

His plea comes after Louise Ellman, the chairman of the House of Commons Transport Committee, wrote to Transport Secretary Justine Greening asking her to hold off signing the final contract, saying that "important issues" had been raised.

And more than 100,000 members of the public have signed an online petition against the decision, in a campaign supported by double Olympic champion Mo Farah, Apprentice star Lord Sugar and celebrity chef Jamie Oliver.

In an opinion piece for the Sunday Telegraph Sir Richard said: "It is far better for MPs to have the chance to debate the issues, and question ministers on the detail before the decision is finalised.

"To assist in this process, there should be an independent audit of the DfT decision to ensure it has been based on correct criteria and reliable forecasting of customer numbers, revenue and payments to Government.

"We must ensure that this crucial decision is taken with all the facts correctly assessed and understood."

Sir Richard accepted that he has a "vested interest" but added: "City analysts, politicians, media commentators and - most importantly - our many loyal customers have seized on this decision as outrageous, unjust and simply wrong."

Virgin has operated the West Coast line since 1997 and has more than doubled annual passenger numbers over 15 years.

FirstGroup claims it will deliver better value for taxpayers. It plans major improvements to the InterCity West Coast franchise to enhance the customer experience, including improved wifi and catering, as well as additional services and more seats and reducing standard anytime fares by 15% on average.
Click to expand...
 
^Sadly, I don't think that that'll matter.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19395621
The deal's almost certainly going ahead. The views of at least 150,000 people - one of the biggest petitions on the ePetitions website -will be ignored. It's a complete farce, especially when only eight petitions from that site have been debated, and this Government is proving time and again that they don't care about what so many people think. In my view, they only seem interested in business and the economy, hence why they chose the highest bid - FirstGroup - to run the West Coast Main Line.

Bring back British Rail.
 
Well it was obvious the Government was going to ignore the petition and go ahead with it.

It's the Tories so I wouldn't expect anything more from them. They are all money, money, money.
 
See Labour and National Express East Coast ;) They're all as bad as one another.

In my opinion the railways should be operated as a national service by a national operator, like the Tube in London. It wouldn't be all that unprofitable considering I read somewhere that TfL cover 80% of expenditure with fares.
 
As I write this, I am on a Virgin train n the way to Euston, sitting in first class. It's such an amazing service, and one that I'll be really sad to see go :(
 
Virgin Trains has said it has started court proceedings over the government's decision to award a new franchise to transport company FirstGroup.

Virgin had run the West Coast Main Line since 1997, but lost to FirstGroup, prompting it to demand a review.

Labour had also urged the government to delay the signing of the contract so that MPs could examine it.

But earlier Transport Secretary Justine Greening said there would be no delay in signing the FirstGroup deal.

She had been expected to sign the contract on 29 August, but Virgin is now hoping that its legal challenge will delay the signing.

'Substantial risks'
In a statement, Virgin Trains said it had tried to get clarity over the Department for Transport's decision, but its questions had been unanswered for three weeks.

"We are left with no choice but to commence court proceedings as we believe the procurement process has ignored the substantial risks to taxpayers and customers of delivering FirstGroup's bid over the course of the franchise.

"In addition, it has ignored the DfT's own assessment that VTL's [Virgin Trains Limited] bid was more deliverable and a lower risk. We question whether FirstGroup's bid has been correctly risk-adjusted by the department given all of its supposed incremental value is delivered after 2022.

"The current process is geared to selecting the highest-risk bid and needs to be independently audited to prevent a repeat of former franchise failures," a statement said.

Sir Richard Branson, the found of the Virgin Group, said the decision had not been taken lightly.

"We had hoped that Parliament or an external review would be able to scrutinise this badly flawed process before the franchise was signed.

"However, that opportunity would be denied if the DfT follows through with its determination to rush through the process before Parliament returns next week.

"That ignores the wishes of more than 150,000 people who signed the Downing St e-petition in 10 days, the Labour Opposition, two important Commons committees and many backbench Conservative MPs who wanted a debate before the decision is taken, not a post-mortem afterwards," he said.
Click to expand...

BBC Source

So it seems Virgin are screwing over the company that are screwing them over. I don't think justice has ever been more high speed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top