Were Merlin right all along?

[Altonadvocate1]

From the day that plans for SW8 were published there were a lot of Nay Sayers on this forum.

Is that it?

Where's the rest of it?

It's too small (Ooh missus)!

A wasted opportunity!

Looks boring!

Wood and fire - another gimmick!

Let's be honest - WM is way better than we expected. It's a lot of fun, and ridden in the dark at scarefest, it's borderline world class.

I suspect that the last minute intervention by a certain Mr Wardley may have saved the day.

In contrast most enthusiasts were waxing Lyrical about Icon from the start.

I think they are both great, with WM underestimated from the off and Icon a trifle overestimated.

But WM seems to have delivered to aid Alton Tower's recovery whereas Icon seems to have failed to boost the gate significantly for Blackpool despite being a great coaster.

Were Merlin right all along?

Do gimmicks, slick marketing, massive marketing budgets and huge well funded marketing departments carry more say than great ride hardware.

Are we overestimating the intelligence of the great British public?

And how do we change this if it's true? How does David compete with Goliath?

Do we owe Merlin an apology (deliberate angry response invoking question)

What do you think?

 

[Bert2theSpark]

Oh I never noticed that we're Merlin.

 

[Altonadvocate1]

I corrected it but you were too quick. I'm going to blame the predictive text lol

 

[MakoMania]

ridden in the dark at scarefest, it's borderline world class.

Really? I don't think so at all.

I'll admit that it's more fun to ride than I expected and has great theming (we'll see how long it lasts) but the ride itself is still fairly dull in terms of the wide range of coasters out there in the world, even in the UK. It's nowhere near as good as the best coasters at Alton Towers or at other UK parks.

This is how I see Wicker Man:

PROS:
-Quite fun to ride, more so at the back
-Fairly reliable now
-Great theming

CONS:
-Very short
-Lacks any real force
-Lacks airtime on the airtime hills
-Feels slow in parts
-Mid-train rides are very dull
-Very slow moving queue
-Merlin have yet again put a dark theme on a kiddie ride

 

[TPC]

I was one of the few people who supported wicker man more than icon since plans were released. The real takeaway for this year is how important marketing is. Icon has flopped to an extent when compared to wicker man.

 

[Altonadvocate1]

Really? I don't think so at all.

I'll admit that it's more fun to ride than I expected and has great theming (we'll see how long it lasts) but the ride itself is still fairly dull in terms of the wide range of coasters out there in the world, even in the UK. It's nowhere near as good as the best coasters at Alton Towers or at other UK parks.

This is how I see Wicker Man:

PROS:
-Quite fun to ride, more so at the back
-Fairly reliable now
-Great theming

CONS:
-Very short
-Lacks any real force
-Lacks airtime on the airtime hills
-Feels slow in parts
-Mid-train rides are very dull
-Very slow moving queue
-Merlin have yet again put a dark theme on a kiddie ride

All good points and I agree with them. During the day it's fun, but notch a patch on other AT rides and certainly not Nemmie.

All I know is that I got last ride of the day, in the dark at Scarefest, with all the effects working (I know, it's like correctly picking all six lottery numbers) and it was phenomenal. Of course Nemmie is still in a class of it's own.

 

[Robert.W]

I think Merlin were right.

Merlin are very good at marketing; after all, it is in their DNA. They have the understanding that gimmicks can help sell their products. And that’s absolutely fine. Gimmicks are not as evil, I don’t think, as some people on Alton Towers forums (and coaster forums in general) make them out to be.

As an expample, the whole “fire and wood” gimmick for Wicker Man helped sell the ride. And it hasn’t impacted on the experience itself in anything other than a positive way. Merlin were able to capture the imagination of the public by emphasising the uniqueness of the ride experience and that encourages them to visit the park, because people like to say they have experienced unique things, people like to say that they’ve “done it” if it is something unique or out of the ordinary. So it works at getting people though the gates for sure. And it showed that when done right, gimmicks can even enhance the ride experience.

It’s only when the gimmick actually devalues the ride experience itself that there is a problem (e.g. Galactica VR). Merlin in the past have invested mostly in the gimmicks, leaving the rest of the ride severely lacking in terms of overall experience. Wicker Man was different.

 

[Bert2theSpark]

I think a reason Merlin can be successful when they come up with an idea that is unique combination of something that hasn't been seen before and that is a good quality, Wicker Man has the previously mention "wood and fire" gimmick going for it.

SAW - The Ride had a similar principle when it opened in 2009 a roller coaster themed to a horror/gore franchise was something that hadn't been seen before which meant the public flocked to see it. It's the same reason "tallest, fastest, longest" records always draw crowds because it's something which hasn't been seen before in the eyes of the public.

Heck even if you look at coasters like Taron, Nemesis, Th13teen or even Helix. Part of the reason they were so successful is because it was something that hadn't been done before and executed brilliantly.

The problem with Merlin is when they think they can Ctrl C + Ctrl V ideas (ala The Walking Dead: The Ride, Nemesis: Sub Terra or I'm a Celebrity Maze).

 

[Altonadvocate1]

The problem with Merlin is when they think they can Ctrl C + Ctrl V ideas (ala The Walking Dead: The Ride, Nemesis: Sub Terra or I'm a Celebrity Maze).[/QUOTE]

Let's hope they don't Ctrl C and Ctrl V some other half baked idea.

They wouldn't be daft enough to do this with something like a dungeon attraction would they?

 

[Dave]

From the day that plans for SW8 were published there were a lot of Nay Sayers on this forum.

Is that it?

Where's the rest of it?

It's too small (Ooh missus)!

A wasted opportunity!

Looks boring!

Wood and fire - another gimmick!

Let's be honest - WM is way better than we expected. It's a lot of fun, and ridden in the dark at scarefest, it's borderline world class.

I suspect that the last minute intervention by a certain Mr Wardley may have saved the day.

In contrast most entusiasts were waxing Lyrical about Icon from the start.

I think they are both great, with WM underestimated from the off and Icon a trifle overestimated.

But WM seems to have delivered to aid Alton Tower's recovery whereas Icon seems to have failed to boost the gate significantly for Blackpool despite being a great coaster.

Were Merlin right all along?

Do gimmicks, slick marketing, massive marketing budgets and huge well funded marketing departments carry more say than great ride hardware.

Are we overestimating the intelligence of the great British public?

And how do we change this if it's true? How does David compete with Goliath?

Do we owe Merlin an apology (deliberate angry response invoking question)

What do you think?

I would say that the theme surprised me and was executed better than I expected. The ride is exactly as I expected, fun but not mind blowing.

It achieved better than expected overall which has been nice to see. Flip that against Icon where expectations where high yet the ride is a bit mediocre.

 

[Brad97]

Lacks any real force? I just can't understand this, I agree that there isn't much airtime but I though the laterals were quite strong, more so than I expected. Maybe I haven't done enough modern woodies yet.

 

[Croftybaby]

It seems to me to be another case of doing the bare minimum to get a decent advertising campaign. But at least this time we have something half decent to show for it with some imagination put in from the folks at Towers.

I've not ridden either of the coasters (WM/Icon) but I know that WM is definitely not enough alone to draw me up on the 3 hour trip whereas I would be more likely to drive the 5 hours to Blackpool knowing that there would be a whole many more attractions that go along with these new additions.

I guess we'll have to wait and see how the figures pan out. After all the closed days/ reduced operations, lack of single rider, the new season pass. did the park really get a whole load more of new customers? Will be interesting to see.

Marketing wise, I rarely watch TV so can't comment on the TV campaigns but I've seen a heck of a lot of WM pictures about while I don't think I've ever seen an Icon image/campaign pop up on my timeline. Of course this will be down to the advertising algorithms for the most part.

I'd also be interested to find out how Alton has done with visitors from outside the midlands/north areas, especially with the rise of the independent parks down south that are catering to the family market.

 

[Danny]

Do we owe Merlin an apology?

How about Merlin owe us an apology for a ludicrous lack of imagination for next year's attraction?
How about Merlin owe us an apology for relentlessly making cuts to the ride line up yet continue to invest in accommodation when the capacity struggles to fill?
How about Merlin owe us an apology for cutting staff positions and single rider queues, leading to lower throughputs and longer queues?
How about Merlin owe us an apology for overselling fast track the other weekend leading to obscene fast track queues?
How about Merlin owe us an apology for leaving their parks looking like desolate apocalyptic landscapes?
How about Merlin owe us an apology for blatantly disregarding guest experiences in favour of turning us upside down and emptying our wallets/purses/money vestibules for every last penny.

Wicker Man is a great addition, there's no denying that. However considering the gimmick of wood and fire works on an ad hoc basis, and given all the issues at the start of the season, we certainly do not owe them an apology. They owe us an apology for not building a woodie sooner, instead thrusting garbage about how they can't be marketed down our throats. In the end, what we've been delivered is nothing compared to the potential that the ideas from the past decade could have mustered.

 

[Error]

Let's be honest - WM is way better than we expected. It's a lot of fun, and ridden in the dark at scarefest, it's borderline world class.

Really? I don't think so at all.

Are you riding the same ride mate?

 

[adamw90]

Got to agree they have done a great job at marketing and drawing in the crowds as the insanely long queues show. The gimmick of fire and wood has worked. I do feel a bit disappointed with WM though as others have said it feels short and doesn't really thrill me however I'm not saying I don't enjoy it as it is a good addition to the park and looks fantastic especially in the dark. I just hope Merlin keep up the maintenance and we still see all the effects working in the coming seasons.

Over all icon is the better coaster for me and it's a real shame that it hasn't done more for the park in terms of bringing in crowds. Although I do love the shorter queues at BPB I do love to see it busy as it is a brilliant family run park that still competes with Merlin.

 

[venny]

Are you riding the same ride mate?

Personally, I can’t see how a coaster with minimal airtime and speed could ever be considered world class. It feels like it’s going to stop half way around. It’s definitely better at night, but the step up is from pretty boring to okay.

I think a lot of the hyperbole comes from expectations. Many thought WM was going to be terrible and as a package Merlin have delivered something that’s decent. Relative to people’s expectations, this seems to result in favourable reports. Icon is perhaps the opposite.

There is definitely a significant impact that WM has had on gate numbers. Patently more so than ICON, albeit the reasons for that are not immediately apparent (it could be marketing or appeal or pricing structure etc).

As an enthusiast though, I think Icon will stand the test of time over WM. Especially after they give up on the fire and effects as will inevitably happen.

 

[Matt N]

As an enthusiast though, I think Icon will stand the test of time over WM. Especially after they give up on the fire and effects as will inevitably happen.

As much as I personally love Icon and I personally prefer it to Wicker Man as a coaster, I'd actually say I've seen the opposite occur in terms of positive reception. Most of Icon's positive reception seems to have come from when it opened, whereas Wicker Man has maintained its positive reception throughout the season. I've seen quite a few people lately say that they prefer Wicker Man to Icon as a coaster (my parents being two of them), both in the enthusiast community and in the non-enthusiast community. It seems that I am now quite uncommon in preferring Icon.

Could 1994 be repeating itself? I know that might seem like a slightly strange question, but the rides that Alton and Blackpool have built in 2018 seem to be very similar to the rides they built in 1994, if you think about it. Alton Towers built Wicker Man, a coaster that looked quite unassuming to most during construction, but turned out to be fantastic and has a real focus on themed experience; very similar to Nemesis. Whereas Blackpool Pleasure Beach have built Icon, a coaster that had very high expectations for it during construction and looked very good on paper, but many would argue that it didn't live up to the hype; very similar to the Big One.

Now, despite me saying everything I've just said above, I personally think that Icon lived up to (if it didn't exceed) my personal expectations for it and is an outstanding ride (my favourite UK coaster and my number 2 overall behind Mako!), and I certainly hope that it isn't viewed in the same way as the Big One is now in 24 years' time! However, I'm trying to look at it from what I believe is the majority of people's point of view. As for my opinions on Wicker Man, I had high hopes for it compared to most and it still blew me away! It's a stunning wooden coaster for Alton with obscene pacing for a woodie, and it's a top 10 coaster for me, as well as being my personal 3rd favourite coaster at Alton!

However, I would definitely say that Wicker Man seems to have been more successful for Alton Towers than Icon has been for Blackpool Pleasure Beach in terms of guest numbers. Every time I've been to Alton Towers this year, it's been much busier than it was last year, and Wicker Man has been attracting a healthy queue. Whereas when we went to Blackpool in August, the park seemed relatively quiet for August. We got 12 rides in!

So, in conclusion, I personally feel that while I prefer Icon and would love to see more rides like it built in the UK, both it and Wicker Man are brilliant rides, and I would also love to see more woodies in the UK. However, I'd personally guess that Wicker Man has had more success than Icon overall.
P.S. Sorry for long post.

 

[speedy]

As much as I personally love Icon and I personally prefer it to Wicker Man as a coaster, I'd actually say I've seen the opposite occur in terms of positive reception. Most of Icon's positive reception seems to have come from when it opened, whereas Wicker Man has maintained its positive reception throughout the season. I've seen quite a few people lately say that they prefer Wicker Man to Icon as a coaster (my parents being two of them), both in the enthusiast community and in the non-enthusiast community. It seems that I am now quite uncommon in preferring Icon.

Could 1994 be repeating itself? I know that might seem like a slightly strange question, but the rides that Alton and Blackpool have built in 2018 seem to be very similar to the rides they built in 1994, if you think about it. Alton Towers built Wicker Man, a coaster that looked quite unassuming to most during construction, but turned out to be fantastic and has a real focus on themed experience; very similar to Nemesis. Whereas Blackpool Pleasure Beach have built Icon, a coaster that had very high expectations for it during construction and looked very good on paper, but many would argue that it didn't live up to the hype; very similar to the Big One.

Now, despite me saying everything I've just said above, I personally think that Icon lived up to (if it didn't exceed) my personal expectations for it and is an outstanding ride (my favourite UK coaster and my number 2 overall behind Mako!), and I certainly hope that it isn't viewed in the same way as the Big One is now in 24 years' time! However, I'm trying to look at it from what I believe is the majority of people's point of view. As for my opinions on Wicker Man, I had high hopes for it compared to most and it still blew me away! It's a stunning wooden coaster for Alton with obscene pacing for a woodie, and it's a top 10 coaster for me, as well as being my personal 3rd favourite coaster at Alton!

However, I would definitely say that Wicker Man seems to have been more successful for Alton Towers than Icon has been for Blackpool Pleasure Beach in terms of guest numbers. Every time I've been to Alton Towers this year, it's been much busier than it was last year, and Wicker Man has been attracting a healthy queue. Whereas when we went to Blackpool in August, the park seemed relatively quiet for August. We got 12 rides in!

So, in conclusion, I personally feel that while I prefer Icon and would love to see more rides like it built in the UK, both it and Wicker Man are brilliant rides, and I would also love to see more woodies in the UK. However, I'd personally guess that Wicker Man has had more success than Icon overall.
P.S. Sorry for long post.

Woah that was a long post!

Interesting point about 1994, if anyone here remembers '94 I'd love to here what you thought about the Big One (and Shockwave) on opening. I would guess, since it was only what, the third hyper coaster (?) and I think it would have blown away riders at the time. Its easy to criticise the Big One now but back when it was the tallest coaster in the world, it must have been amazing. Especially if you consider the internet was only in its infancy, and most riders probably hadn't tried Magnum （or even heard of it).

As for do we owe Merlin an apology? No i dont think anyone owes anyone an apology. Icon was criticised too, when it was compared to Helix and also the low top speed.

 

[Matt N]

Woah that was a long post!

Interesting point about 1994, if anyone here remembers '94 I'd love to here what you thought about the Big One (and Shockwave) on opening. I would guess, since it was only what, the third hyper coaster (?) and I think it would have blown away riders at the time. Its easy to criticise the Big One now but back when it was the tallest coaster in the world, it must have been amazing. Especially if you consider the internet was only in its infancy, and most riders probably hadn't tried Magnum （or even heard of it).

That's why I put the apology at the end!

I know there are a couple of members on here who may well have been around in 1994, so maybe they could shed some light on the situation.

 

[speedy]

That's why I put the apology at the end!

I know there are a couple of members on here who may well have been around in 1994, so maybe they could shed some light on the situation.

Yeah I know... i don't think we owe Merlin an apology I don't think you owe us an apology., i just expecting it. Your analysis is appreciated

EDIT: not expecting it, rather than expecting it