• ℹ️ Heads up...

    This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.

Thorpe Park: General Discussion

Josh555 said:
I’m probably in the minority here but I don’t necessarily buy into the ‘blame Merlin’ mantra for the fact that this didn’t work out originally.

I’m the first to criticise when they just go for massive coasters and never try anything different, they at least attempted some originality with this and NST and should be commended for that, granted neither (especially this) worked out but at least the intent was there.

Hopefully we’ll see the benefit of lessons being learnt with the Curse of Alton Manor and whatever Ghost Train ends up being.
Click to expand...
I find it difficult to blame anyone other than the company who conceptualised, built and operated the thing. Not sure where else the buck should stop.

It's a product of the culture and development criteria that's run through Merlin for a long time. A mess of their own doing, chasing some nonsense uniqueness and supposedly marketable selling point at the expense of the actual experience. I still can't believe they spent that sort of money in what amounts to a train simulator, the dullest form of transport imaginable that doesn't need simulating.

Just imagine the sort of ride a tried and tested Oceaneering system could have been for the money. What a waste.
 
It was never going to last forever. When it was built, Derren Brown’s association with it was never going to be permanent. Heck, I bet he’s glad it’s over. I’ve never been on the ride but from what I saw online it looked impressive but didn’t get my juices flowing so much I wanted to try it. Ghost Train for a name. Wow. That must’ve taken some brainstorming in the meeting room. 🙄

I think the more exciting news to come out of the park is the upcoming moving of the barge, or the old Saw Alive maze. I’ve said for years blow it up at Fright Nights.
 
jon81uk said:
Theme Park attractions generally last more than six years though. The Haunted House at AT is 30 years old.
Click to expand...
With that being said, The Haunted House only lasted 10 years before the Duel revamp happened. Duel lasted 19 years, but it seems to be somewhat of an outlier among UK Merlin dark rides.

Toyland Tours only lasted 11 years before the CATCF revamp, and CATCF itself only lasted 9 years.

The Fifth Dimension only lasted 6 years before being converted to Terror Tomb, which itself only lasted 7 years before the Tomb Blaster revamp.

Even Professor Burp’s Bubbleworks only lasted 15 years, and the Imperial Leather variant lasted 10 years.

For whatever reason, UK Merlin dark rides do generally seem to have relatively short lifespans. Compared to the big coasters, they don’t seem to last anywhere near as long, on average.

So even if 6 years is a pretty short lifespan (even by UK Merlin dark ride standards, that’s only matched by The Fifth Dimension), perhaps Ghost Train shouldn’t be such an unexpected development after all, as many other big ticket dark rides at UK Merlin parks lasted 10 years or less prior to being removed or receiving a big refurbishment.
 
Sorry to double post, but in hindsight, I think that this post from @Prophecy in 2019 regarding DBGT’s development could provide an interesting insight into the sort of things we could potentially see in Ghost Train:
Prophecy said:
The project had been a VR project long before Derren Brown was confirmed to be onboard. There were other themes for the ride considered; almost all of them were not IPs as well. Merlin's market research had shown interest in a Derren Brown / illusion based ridew and there were a couple of other options considered for a 'Derren Brown attraction' (even a wooden coaster was considered at one point, for example). So when Derren was bought on board to Ghost Train, it had already been decided to be VR and the basic principle (get on a vehicle, get off for live action sequence, got on again) was there too.

Simworx offer a lot of effects which could be installed on the train carriages, or be used to move the carriage (for example, the train shudders slightly when a ghost breaks the window in the first VR sequence). Many were considered (like window misters, etc), but most didn't make it to the final implementation phase. The only one which was bought but never used were leg ticklers; something which was never installed and the park got rid of them in early 2017.



The original plan was that the screens on the train would effectively play the same footage as the headsets. This would allow staff to see what was happening, and also meant anyone who was too scared/uncomfortable with the VR could still see the footage.

This later changed to the loop we have now, again for the impression that if people didn't like the VR they could still watch something. But then they realised how bad the experience would be just sat in the dark watching the screen and seeing staff touching people. So they scrapped the idea of allowing people to take headsets off and just encourage them to close their eyes.


Ghost Train has all been a mess really. Simworx completely over-promised what they could do, and severely under-delivered. Thorpe underestimated the amount of money that would need to be invested into the VR aspect. Too little thought was put into the operations of the ride when it was being designed, leaving the park with something which is extremely difficult to operate correctly/well. Derren isn't exactly fond of the experience, has had some problems with how Merlin and Thorpe handled certain aspects. It's all just not great.

The park have certainly considered dropping the VR element altogether. Even from late 2015 the park have had a back up plan should the VR completely fail. But the trouble is, dropping the VR either means they would need to spend a fair amount of money turning it into a decent-ish simulator, or going cheap and being left with a ride that isn't much better. And we all know what option they would go towards...
Click to expand...
In terms of quotes I find particularly interesting, there are two that stick out to me:
  • They talk about “various effects” that were offered by Simworx and considered for installation on the train itself, but never made it to the final ride. These included window misters, leg ticklers, and the train shuddering to align with the video. Could some of these make an appearance within Ghost Train?
  • They also talk about how the park has had a backup plan for replacing the VR since as early as late 2015. Could Ghost Train, or at very least elements of it, possibly have been in planning for longer than we expect?
What do you guys think?

Prophecy’s post can be found here: https://towersstreet.com/talk/threads/thorpe-park-general-discussion.8/page-341#post-267015
 
BigShadowtinytree said:
Thorpe are looking for a Guest Services Duty Manager, good luck to them filling this position for £10 an hour. I earn more than that doing kitchen grunt work.

merlin.csod.com

Guest Services Duty Manager

LOVE YOUR WORK. WORK YOUR MAGIC.
merlin.csod.com
Click to expand...

How they fill any positions is beyond me.

A quick google shows various customer service team leader roles in Surrey in the region of £28k versus the £20k Merlin are offering for this role.
 
pluk said:
I find it difficult to blame anyone other than the company who conceptualised, built and operated the thing. Not sure where else the buck should stop.

It's a product of the culture and development criteria that's run through Merlin for a long time. A mess of their own doing, chasing some nonsense uniqueness and supposedly marketable selling point at the expense of the actual experience. I still can't believe they spent that sort of money in what amounts to a train simulator, the dullest form of transport imaginable that doesn't need simulating.

Just imagine the sort of ride a tried and tested Oceaneering system could have been for the money. What a waste.
Click to expand...

It’s clearly their fault and I’m not suggesting that it isn’t.

My point is I’m loathe to throw too much criticism their way for trying something new and messing it up, it happens and hopefully they’ve now learnt from it.

When everything was actually working (including the awesome effect of the train looking like it was going to hit you which they, for some reason, got rid of,) it wasn’t a bad ride.
It wasn’t brilliant, nor a patch on what I was hoping for, but it wasn’t dreadful.
 
Theme park industry roles have always been fairly poorly paid - I'm not saying it's right, but all companies, Merlin included take advantage of the fact that people want to work in the parks.

When I was a ride op, I could have earned more much closer to home but I wanted to press buttons and mop sick up.
 
£10 an hour when you're situated in the most expensive area of the country...... absolutely ridiculous but comes as no surprise.

The minimum wage goes up to £10.40 (for 23yrs+) in 2 months time too. Why not just advertise at that given the role probably won't start until March anyway. Huge saving of 40p an hour. Hahahaha.

Kids who love theme parks and getting a free merlin pass are basically what keep these places open.
 
Am I the only one a bit disappointed that DBGTs soundtrack will most likely be replaced for the Ghost Train? I'm not a huge IMAscore fan, but DBGTs soundtrack just takes the cake as one of my favourite orchestral pieces of music for a theme park!
 
RyanUK said:
It was never going to last forever. When it was built, Derren Brown’s association with it was never going to be permanent. Heck, I bet he’s glad it’s over. I’ve never been on the ride but from what I saw online it looked impressive but didn’t get my juices flowing so much I wanted to try it. Ghost Train for a name. Wow. That must’ve taken some brainstorming in the meeting room. 🙄

I think the more exciting news to come out of the park is the upcoming moving of the barge, or the old Saw Alive maze. I’ve said for years blow it up at Fright Nights.
Click to expand...
Big Dipper at Blackpool is a hundred years old this year...that won't last forever either...and it didn't cost a rumoured thirty million quid!
Blackpool's Ghost Train is coming up to a hundred as well...another great woodie!
Sponsors and titles change, good rides remain.
 
Josh555 said:
I’m probably in the minority here but I don’t necessarily buy into the ‘blame Merlin’ mantra for the fact that this didn’t work out originally.

I’m the first to criticise when they just go for massive coasters and never try anything different, they at least attempted some originality with this and NST and should be commended for that, granted neither (especially this) worked out but at least the intent was there.

Hopefully we’ll see the benefit of lessons being learnt with the Curse of Alton Manor and whatever Ghost Train ends up being.
Click to expand...
On the subject of taking a gamble on a new development I will commend Merlin for Nemesis Sub-Terra. It was a bold move and I still maintain that it was just a few revisions off being a really interesting ride.
DBGT however was a flawed idea from the start. You didn't need to be an industry expert to see that basing their single biggest investment around unproven tech would end in an operational disaster. Just look back to the topic during It's development and you'll see the concerns raised time and time again.
At the time Thorpe Park needed a solid home run. They weren't in Alton's position (Th13teen had just opened and The Smiler was already on the way). They needed a safe crowd pleaser, with broader appeal to open up the parks demographic to more than just Thrill Seekers. A supersized actual classic Ghost Train could have been the answer.
 
BigShadowtinytree said:
Thorpe are looking for a Guest Services Duty Manager, good luck to them filling this position for £10 an hour. I earn more than that doing kitchen grunt work.

merlin.csod.com

Guest Services Duty Manager

LOVE YOUR WORK. WORK YOUR MAGIC.
merlin.csod.com
Click to expand...

WORK YOUR MAGIC as you spend hours arguing with people over their child being too short, nothing being open on time or dealing with the "I've been on 3 rides all day" crowd.

DBGT was clearly a flawed design from the start, with VR being well known as temperamental in the theme park industry. Designing an entire attraction around it was questionable at best.

Derren pretty much disassociated himself from it as soon as he'd done the required PR no? Maybe if he was given free reign could've been something but using him as an IP was a bit niche in a way. Well known but a peculiar choice of IP (which Thorpe love to do anyway).

Considering the plentiful options of dark rides available to them for the same budget, its a terrible shame that not even 10 years after opening (and even then having weird hours and operations in those years) that they have to entirely rework it.

The short termism of those days will hopefully be on their way out. Hopefully, but still doubtful considering Marketing is clearly remaining as the most important aspect. Otherwise Exodus would be a RMC orB&M Hyper, still beating the height record but delivering a top quality experience different to what's already at the park.
 
Mattie boy said:
So a new cafe will open in the ride exit of the forthcoming revamp of the ghost train.

Source, TP official passholder fans page. It does actually look quite good
Click to expand...
Here’s a few photos that they have posted. Will probably be a better use for the space, as the shop was massively under used.
 

Attachments

  • 06C103BC-2DF9-48DE-AE0E-8FB2FA499C80.jpeg
    06C103BC-2DF9-48DE-AE0E-8FB2FA499C80.jpeg
    355.6 KB · Views: 114
  • A0A89211-49F5-4DB5-A873-45C53A6FA7EE.jpeg
    A0A89211-49F5-4DB5-A873-45C53A6FA7EE.jpeg
    338.5 KB · Views: 110
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top