Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Jordan, 25th Nov 2014.
No outdoor lighting will be installed at all for the project.. so no after dark opening!
I don't think these things tend to open in the dark anyway. And there's no way they'd get planning permission for flood lighting in this location, and rightly so. Ambient low level lighting maybe, but never flood lights.
Inexplicably leaves the SAME problem.
What the heck are you supposed to do post 7pm? OK in the summer that stays open later, but limited amount of people can go on it and I really daren't think how much they're going to charge for it.
Just beggars belief to me they think about putting something like this in before some proper all weather, longer hours activities.
Has anyone designing this stuff ever actually stayed on "resort"?
Before all of this I'd put a building up with a bar, entertainment room, provision for simple BAR SNACKS (wtf), a homely atmosphere, some games stuff, a little bowling alley, a kids soft indoor play area.
What do we have instead? An adult bar with CHILDREN'S ENTERTAINMENT in it, no where quiet for adults to sit if they're enjoying a nice break, a waterpark that closes too early, nothing to do after park close unless you like listening to Karaoke singing, that is a LONG TIME to sit in a room/bar with kids with nothing to do.
NOT A RESORT.
Glorified B&B that's WAY over priced.
Oh, and don't give me that carp that "So and so calls itself a resort and that's got this, so that makes it a resort"... NO. That makes "so and so" NOT a resort either!
Excuse the double post.
I have decided the Alton Towers Resort is missing some words.
"Alton Towers Resort... to installing the most bizarre incomprehensible things at times, and even the good things they do, like enchanted village, they have to bugger up by not also installing adequate entertainment facilities presuming I suppose that "Guests" are going to be happy having paid a fortune to wander around looking at all the lovely closed things like the waterpark, golf, ROPE COURSE (on-topic ), bars etc - realise there's not even a basic shop for some provisions in their self catering vinyl covered sheds as they once again demonstrate how to take a great idea and ruin it. But it doesn't matter because you're all wizards and warlocks and witches and can MAGIC your own entertainment and food and etc..."
Except they aren't self catering lodges.
Equally the rope course is clearly not designed to be an evening attraction. It adds something to do during the day for guests who may be using the waterpark but don't wish to spend all day in there. Before there was just golf as an alternative, now there will be this too.
I totally agree evening entertainment needs an expansion and more attention but I feel people are focussing on the opening times of this development a wee bit too much. Agree golf ought to stay open more too though.
Just as a comparison @TheMan
Alton Towers Resort has -
- Theme Park
- Water Park
- Crazy Golf
- (if approved) High ropes course
Europa Park Resort has -
- Theme Park
Now EP has far better quality bars and restaurants, and Towers need to look at bar and food capacity but I think the resort offering stacks up well to other European parks.
Europa-Park does have multiple pool areas, a golf course, cinema and campsite too.
In addition to a much longer season and longer hours plus more events and entertainment.
Somehow it feels far more resorty than Alton Towers - presumably the park alone is worth 3 days of your time.
At the very least this adds something more for guests to do in the offseason. It's a shame that there is still nothing for post-theme park closing hours in season, but it's a step in the right direction.
The pools are outdoors so hardly evening entertainment. Which was the point.
There is no doubt the place feels more resorte, especially for our group of adults as the bars are so good, but my point wasn't to downplay Europa Park, it was just pointing out that the "ohh woe the resort label" and General hyperbole some people are doing here regarding Alton Towers, doesn't stand up to scrutiny when you compare to other theme park resorts in Europe.
What is there to do post 7pm?
Well, most guests are either sat in the restaurants or in their rooms getting ready to go and have food. I dont think there would be much demand after 7pm to do high ropes course, or mini golf. The only thing which may have a fair number of people in it after 7pm would be the waterpark....
I thought I was quite clear that I don't count comparing other non resort like resorts as a valid debating point.
It isn't that bad as a resort in theory, but in practice it is, because everything is pretty much only open when the park is. It seems you do Park OR something else. You can rarely do Park THEN something else.
And I have seen those bars and restaurants at Europa, there's so much choice, and there seems to be other stuff also. PLUS they stay open longer, for far more time of the year, and therefore you can I would imagine quite comprehensively knacker yourself out on park and then do one or two things or enjoy a relaxing meal/drink in one of the MANY eateries or bars - some with epic views across the park etc.
I think they have enough on balance to class themselves as a resort.
As soon as evening comes at AT you're extremely restricted to choices, and often your stay is further dependent upon whether you get good or awful staff.
What they needed was things to keep the "resort" lively AFTER park close, which given the park close time throughout the year is just not good enough for the money they charge.
The high ropes course doesn't need to be open at night. It's pretty obvious it is meant to be a daylight attraction.
Towers do need something more for the evenings though. While the theme park closes early evenings in the summer, not everyone leaves the park closing time. People usually tend to leave the park from 4pm onwards (depending on the time of the year). For around 3 hours there is nothing for people to do. Lets go to the golf, oh it's closed. Lets have an hour in the waterpark, oh it's closed. All that leaves are the arcades, which admittedly Splash Landings one is of a very good size with plenty of machines.
They need something extra, even if it's something as simple as a bowling alley as mentioned a page or so back. Just something that can entertain a good chunk of guests who want to do something extra, but something that is a little calmer and not too tiring after a day around the theme park. I believe the hotel managers have looked at a few short term ideas although nothing seems to be coming into reality.
At the least the waterpark and possibly golf staying open later would be great to see. More entertainment should be looked into in future too. Hotel ents has been so stripped down from the 90s.
I think they will be able to milk it without new things to do for now. Although if they go down the route of a third hotel, or an extension to the lodges site, that's when they need to bite the bullet and build some supporting entertainment facilities.
The high ropes course is a good addition. As someone who usually leaves the resort on my final day there during a stay, this will certainly keep me on resort and interested in trying out. I worry it will be like the golf though, once you've done it 4 years in a row you start to get bored.
Don't you find it immensely frustrating @James when it's so easy to see simple things that can be done to change it.
I'm not even talking about having the golf course open till ridiculously late, but I find it hard to believe after a nice meal there wouldn't be a few people who'd like to go over and have a game of crazy golf. It's not exactly exerting.
I do wonder if some of the people commenting have ever been on a holiday at times.
I don't think there's a single person posting who disagrees with you on the golf... Everyone wants it open more and given some TLC.
Towers advertise it on park in toilets and suchlike - they should at least keep it bloody open after the park shuts haha!
Extraordinary Golf. Extraordinary opening hours.
Thankfully you don't have a veto on what other people consider a valid debating point
No one has questioned the fact the quality of the bars need improving and that some resort activity would help, but again you look at most other resort parks (comparing like-for-like i know is concerning for you but... hey ho) and you are again left with nothing for kids to do (hello Disney). And going back to EP, only one bar at the camp site has evening entertainment. There are some mini fountain shows as well but that's it.
The fact is Alton Towers mostly have the "ability" to offer a decent evening for adults if they improved the bars, but saying that this high rope course is misguided because it offers nothing after 6pm is in my view wrong. The resort needs a whole number of improvements, moaning about one because it doesn't also solve other issues is ignoring the fact it is still an improvement.
As for the water park and golf, both used to open until around 8-9pm, it was nearly always empty. Now i personally would look at ways to tempt guests into the attractions late on, but the fact people didn't naturally gravitate to these attractions after the park closed suggests the public do not find the resort too lacking in things to do, as the kids are probably mostly heading to bed.
But god knows they need to improve the bars.
No but it is a clear indication of what I will personally debate. I am not for saying "they are crapper so that's acceptable" and never have been.
Nothing that becomes truly successful ever does. It is a language of failure and mediocrity.
Also, I am not saying the Ropes is a bad addition either. I don't think it is, I think it's decent. Never said otherwise, my point is it highlights the need for other things I think this debate got more pertinent with the additional lodges etc.
I would describe the "Resort" as bitty. It doesn't feel a total package anymore, Golf feels utterly out on it's own, open goodness knows when and with holes older than a... I'm stopping there
I would like to feel a cohesion, I never feel when I am leaving park that the golf is advertised, or promoted in any meaningful way.
Being serious here, do you feel the hotels/park/golf etc actually feel like a unit? Or like me, totally separate offerings within a big space?
You have an issue with the geography of the resort, i think it's clear they are trying to bring the resort together, the resort side of the park stalled after the golf. Things are simply back on the move, but Rome wasn't built in a day.
I would hazard a guess that in the next 10 years, the ATH extension will be built and marketed as a 3rd Spa hotel (along with the spa extension). The enchanted village will expand towards the high ropes course almost certainly. There are rumours of some bar reconfiguration at Splash as well but we will see.
And who has made that case? No one! People are simply looking at what else exists in the industry and comparing it. This is a good addition, it helps make the resort side a day activity in itself which currently it isn't. It does not but nor is it intended to deal with the evening entertainment issues. They certainly have plans for that, i'm not convinced they will be to my taste as i can't see them improving the bar offering.
Further information on the High Ropes course:
Planning application still pending
I do view Alton as a resort - but not a value for money one which encourages me to stay longer and spend my time experiencing all it has to offer.
The crux of this comes from the price of staying in the hotels in my opinion.
If staying for 3 nights was cheap enough, then I could spend my time enjoying the spa, the waterpark, the theme park, playing mini golf, maybe having a walk around the gardens in the park, and the high ropes when they are built. But, unfortunately, I find that im rushing to do as much as possible in the little time I have due to the cost of staying over. So, in that regard, it doesn't feel like a resort. When I have had more time to enjoy things, then yes it does.
I dont see things like golf or high ropes being open until late being a major problem. If anything, I think the theme park not staying open later is more of a problem. At least then I could maybe take time in the waterpark or spa and then venture to the theme park late afternoon knowing I still have time to enjoy the rides without rushing around.
With regards the evenings, the hotels are not geared up for late night partying, and so they shouldnt. Most people staying over are only there for a short period of time (due to cost) and want to get to bed at a sensible hour as they (a) have kids and (b) may have a long day ahead of them in the theme park or driving home. Plus, you dont want loud drunken people walking down the corridors in the early hours of the mornings. I know how loud people can be from staying over on NYE on two occasions with people making hell of a noise at 4am down the corridors or outside ATH having a ciggie.
Lets also not forget the great British weather and that mini golf, or high ropes just wouldnt be an option maybe 50% of the months they are open.
I think Alton need to build on and expand on what they currently have :
1) sort out the Dragon bar, make it more inviting like it once was, reduce queues at peak times
2) table service in both hotels so you can sit and enjoy the entertainment without queuing for a drink
3) entertainment in both hotels needs a kick up the rear. How about the singers in ATH with the band, but in Splash on peak weekends have tribute bands (like you get abroad) such as ABBA for example (just a thought) and encourage people to dress up - have them playing until 11pm. I say in Splash because the noise tends to not filter through to the rooms like in ATH
4) expand or find a new larger room for the arcades in ATH
5) allow the waterpark to open until late on peak weekends in the summer, late night swimming! Caribbean party nights in the waterpark would be a good selling point
6) mini golf does need to be open a bit longer after the park closes (depending on park close time of course) weather permitting but also needs a refurb
7) bring back the feeling of exclusivity in the hotels - what makes you stay there over staying in a B&B down the road. What can you do in the hotels that other guests cannot. For example, the late night waterpark access - hotel guests only, or have summer BBQ's in the Enchanted Forest for hotel guests only, just ideas but things which makes you want to stay there for exclusive benefits. I remember the days of the discount books you got in the hotel rooms, encouraging you to buy ride photos, or play the games, bring them back.
8) following on from point 7 above, how about turning the Swiss Cottage into an exclusive luxury restaurant for hotel guests, candle lit dinners, excellent views, al a carte dining in the summer, and shuttle guests across from the hotels to the restaurant in golf buggies or something if needs be - focus on people who want to spend that extra for a very high quality dinner in amazing surroundings.....
I believe they have the "foundations" of a good resort, they just to do a bit more with what they presently have.....
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