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2019 General Election Poll and Discussion
- Thread starter Rob
- Start date
They are
speedy
TS Member
No you don't, not at all. My point merely was that if I can remember a Labour government and I'm 20, a 30 year old certainly can. And so it's a silly point.
speedy
TS Member
The graphic on here shows what I am trying to say (ok so they use the age group of 18 - 34 then 45-54 and then over 54). The younger voters are clearly Labour. The older are clearly Cons. Not sterotyping, just fact. Scroll down about a thrid to see the graphic then click on the age group buttons.
https://projects.economist.com/uk-elections/poll-tracker
To quote:
"Since the eu referendum in June 2016 Britain has become a country that votes increasingly by age. Jeremy Corbyn, the avowedly socialist Labour leader, enjoyed a cult-like status among many young people going into the 2017 election. He will be hoping to energise the young once more, yet he faces a battle with the Liberal Democrats for their vote."
https://projects.economist.com/uk-elections/poll-tracker
To quote:
"Since the eu referendum in June 2016 Britain has become a country that votes increasingly by age. Jeremy Corbyn, the avowedly socialist Labour leader, enjoyed a cult-like status among many young people going into the 2017 election. He will be hoping to energise the young once more, yet he faces a battle with the Liberal Democrats for their vote."
jon81uk
TS Member
The graph for 45-54 is by no means indicating anything, they flip-flop all over the place.
This is the problem with the generalisation, how do you define older and younger.
It is quite clear under 30s (Gen Z) are voting Labour and over 60s (Boomers) conservative.
The huge group of people in the middle (Gen X and millennials (Gen Y)) are harder to define and could be broken down even further.
I think its clear the split, as it was in the EU Referendum, where those under 49 voted to remain while those over voted to vote leave. The EXACT ages are not important, just with everything, it is grouped into an age bracket, and its clear to see the younger age bracket voted to remain and are predicted to vote Labour. The older age bracket voted leave and are predicted to vote Conservative. The EU Referendum has split the country and the politics I think in a way never seen before.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted
ChristmasPud
TS Member
I suppose there’s truth that younger generations have it quite different to many older generations, better in some ways and worse in others.
It’s much harder to have your own stake in things, even if you wanted to be self reliant, that important first step is missing for many younger people and the consequences hang around for a long time
It’s much harder to have your own stake in things, even if you wanted to be self reliant, that important first step is missing for many younger people and the consequences hang around for a long time
Plastic Person
TS Member
I don't understand the point being made here? I know that traditionally people vote Conservative as they get older, that's always been the case. So is it being suggested that young people who want something different for their future are wrong, because really they will just end up old and voting for right-wing parties nonetheless? I refer back to my previous post that speculates that some voters, often angry, really struggle to imagine anything different at all.
My parents are Boomers and home owners, and are voting for Labour. They're far from Corbynites, and despite coming from a working class background, both voted Conservative when younger, but they have not been able to ignore the blatant, dehumanising effects of austerity over the last decade. I know it's more rare for older people to slip into a more socialist mindset as they age, but they're also not daft or cruel. I suspect there are millions more like them.
My parents are Boomers and home owners, and are voting for Labour. They're far from Corbynites, and despite coming from a working class background, both voted Conservative when younger, but they have not been able to ignore the blatant, dehumanising effects of austerity over the last decade. I know it's more rare for older people to slip into a more socialist mindset as they age, but they're also not daft or cruel. I suspect there are millions more like them.
speedy
TS Member
Exactly, I was about to say I didn't understand the point with this debate.
To try and break this stereotype, my grandparents are in their seventies and would NEVER vote for the Conservatives because of what they did to the coal miners (their parents worked in the mines).
They've seen good and bad governments from both parties. It is ridiculous to suggest older folks have been put off voting Labour because they lived during a Labour government. Margaret Thatcher anyone?
This link doesn't even slightly support your claim that younger people vote for labour because they don't remember previous labour governments.
It also doesn't support your claim that older people support conservatives because they do remember previous labour governments.
Even what it says in that quote is mostly not supported in the data. Cult like status? Sorry, but I don't buy it.
If you remember Blair, then you certainly remember the last 10 years. Where support for young people has been gutted (EMA, loans and grants for students), where support for job seekers and those claiming other benefits have been destroyed (universal credit, pip, homelessness rising, uncontrolled gig economy and exploitation of human rights). Where austerity has removed vital services in the community, seen crime rise and hospital beds drop. Where they've created a constitutional crisis and voted against their own deals with the European Union, not just once but several times. Where they propose borders to divide the union. Where people are dying as a direct result of their policies.
If you aren't horrified by the conservatives and their actions over the last year, then you're ignorant or selfish.
I don't care whatever labour supposedly did 50 years ago. Those people are mostly dead or retired now. What is labour doing now? That's what's important.
Edit: why does the graph linked also discount 20 years of ages. Very strange age groups. 35-44 and 55-66 both not counted.
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speedy
TS Member
What point are you trying to make here?
My takeaway is the elderly are voting Conservative because:
- They've already retired so don't care about the retirement age going up
- They've got lots of property and don't want to pay any tax
- They don't like foreigners (a generalization, but certainly they'll have been less exposed to foreigners than young people are)
- They don't believe in climate change or think they'll die before it affects them
Plastic Person
TS Member
I too am familiar with all of those statistics, but I don't know what they tell me about why young people are wrong or naive for voting Labour?
Well there must be a reason why older people are voting Conservative. The older generation have had the better living, the better pensions, most own their own homes, some have more than one house, many have already retired and they wouldn't want to vote in a party which is going to want to take some of that away from them. As for not liking foreigners, not sure about that one but given the EU vote, that is no doubt a factor in some cases. And dare I say, there are also a group who may not care about climate change but who knows.
Whereas, the younger age group will be growing up with poor pensions, more years of their lives working, maybe not owning a home, wanting to remain in the EU and enjoy the freedoms that brings, are worried about the climate as they get older, and perhaps are just more liberal.
Whereas, the younger age group will be growing up with poor pensions, more years of their lives working, maybe not owning a home, wanting to remain in the EU and enjoy the freedoms that brings, are worried about the climate as they get older, and perhaps are just more liberal.
speedy
TS Member
Well you've basically written my post for me on how it's nothing to do with "experience" and all to do with selfish protectionism.
ChristmasPud
TS Member
Even though the big post war era liberal generations will now be that age? Which freedoms does a bureaucratic political union bring for individuals? A large proportion of Labour voters voted for Brexit too.
I dont get a lot of these generalisations.
Stuie
TS Member
And that's why, aside from the lies and bullshit, we should have a second referendum.
The category that largely voted to leave are now already 52. If we leave, it's going to be another 10 years before it's fully resolved so by then they will be 62.
Yet it's the younger people that will have to live the rest of their lives with this hideous decision.
I voted leave.
-but-
I agree, the vote was 3 years ago, we tend to have a new government every 4 years and too long has now gone since the vote. Therefore, I am not adverse to another vote, however, the further damage this may do to democracy may not be fixed for generations.
As for "this hideous decision".... truth is we dont know this. It may go badly and make us poorer or it may open up trade with even more countries and make the UK even more prosperous.
The hideous decision was the government calling the referendum thinking it would win it, with no plans for if people did vote leave.