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2021: General Discussion

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pluk said:
They take action very very rarely. It would be a big effort and cost especially for the first season, but would pay huge dividends once those misbehaving knew the game was up.

Electronic payment methods, vehicle number plates, photos. Loads of ways to implement banning across the estate, certainly not with any great reliability but with enough to send the right message. Again, effort, again, worth it!
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I think you overestimate how much those responsible will actually care about any of that. Hell a fair number don’t even enter via the main entrance. You only have to take a walk down the path to the hotel entrance to see how often the fence gets cut open.

The size of the estate is way to big to cover entirely with CCTV, electronic only payments impact other guests and number plate recognition only works if you can track the person back to their vehicle.

When ever I have been at Towers on these days the police and security have always been active, it’s just too much at once to have a hope of stopping it. The day has happened since the 90’s usually linked with Uttox races so if they could stop it they would have by now.
 
Dave said:
I think you overestimate how much those responsible will actually care about any of that. Hell a fair number don’t even enter via the main entrance. You only have to take a walk down the path to the hotel entrance to see how often the fence gets cut open.

The size of the estate is way to big to cover entirely with CCTV, electronic only payments impact other guests and number plate recognition only works if you can track the person back to their vehicle.

When ever I have been at Towers on these days the police and security have always been active, it’s just too much at once to have a hope of stopping it. The day has happened since the 90’s usually linked with Uttox races so if they could stop it they would have by now.
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With prebook required aren't we on electronic payments only already?

It wouldn't be easy, it wouldn't be 100% or instantly successful, and its certainly more difficult than at geographically smaller parks, but they certainly could break this cycle with persistence and targeted efforts that made going elsewhere more attractive to those intent on trouble.
 
pluk said:
With prebook required aren't we on electronic payments only already?

It wouldn't be easy, it wouldn't be 100% or instantly successful, and its certainly more difficult than at geographically smaller parks, but they certainly could break this cycle with persistence and targeted efforts that made going elsewhere more attractive to those intent on trouble.
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There are some tickets where it's a free pre-book and Pay cash iirc.
 
With the likes of Disney trialing facial recognition at their parks, if that hit off that would be a great way to implement and enforce the banning of certain guests from theme parks.

The traveler days can get a bit out of hand, however Towers manage these weekends far better than they did many years ago. I agree with pluk that more targeted approaches at deterring trouble makers could/should be made. There will always be loopholes, however getting at a starting point at least lessens the number of guests causing disrupt.
 
Who the hell pays with cash these days anyway? People over 90, fraudsters, drug dealers and tax dodging tradesmen only surely?

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Matt.GC said:
Who the hell pays with cash these days anyway? People over 90, fraudsters, drug dealers and tax dodging tradesmen only surely?

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Most of my customers pay me in cash.
I prefer to simply spend the money in my wallet, rather than do a needless trip into town, which costs me money, pay to park, then queue up at the bank to pay in .
A wasted couple of hours...or simply, pay in cash!
I am not yet over 90.
I commit no fraud.
I am not a drug dealer.
I am a tradesman, but I do not dodge my taxes.
Edit...Two of my customers are over 90, but as far as I'm aware, none are fraudsters, drug dealers, or tax dodging tradesmen, though I will be careful to check their backgrounds in future.
They simply prefer to use cash.
Only one customer prefers to pay me directly into my bank account, and that is absolutely fine.
I even accept cheques, usually two a month, and that is fine too.
 
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pluk said:
With prebook required aren't we on electronic payments only already?

It wouldn't be easy, it wouldn't be 100% or instantly successful, and its certainly more difficult than at geographically smaller parks, but they certainly could break this cycle with persistence and targeted efforts that made going elsewhere more attractive to those intent on trouble.
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There is a cash option for pre-booking, treasury guidance strongly resists card only services at the moment.

You are not really clear on what the targeted approach can be? Remember that ultimately Towers would need the police to take action as banning would do absolutely nothing. CCTV is available across the park and they get increased security and police presence whenever they attend. The idea they will go somewhere else doesn’t wash either, they come because of Uttoxeter races, it’s not like there is a million other things for the young people of that community to do in the staffs Moorlands whilst the adults are at the races.

James said:
With the likes of Disney trialing facial recognition at their parks, if that hit off that would be a great way to implement and enforce the banning of certain guests from theme parks.

The traveler days can get a bit out of hand, however Towers manage these weekends far better than they did many years ago. I agree with pluk that more targeted approaches at deterring trouble makers could/should be made. There will always be loopholes, however getting at a starting point at least lessens the number of guests causing disrupt.
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Facial recognition is a minefield at the moment, Disney have the money and operate in a country less concerned about personal privacy (Disney are not currently using facial recognition in Paris for that very reason). It would be foolish for Towers to go down that route right now.
 
rob666 said:
Most of my customers pay me in cash.
I prefer to simply spend the money in my wallet, rather than do a needless trip into town, which costs me money, pay to park, then queue up at the bank to pay in .
A wasted couple of hours...or simply, pay in cash!
I am not yet over 90.
I commit no fraud.
I am not a drug dealer.
I am a tradesman, but I do not dodge my taxes.
Edit...Two of my customers are over 90, but as far as I'm aware, none are fraudsters, drug dealers, or tax dodging tradesmen, though I will be careful to check their backgrounds in future.
They simply prefer to use cash.
Only one customer prefers to pay me directly into my bank account, and that is absolutely fine.
I even accept cheques, usually two a month, and that is fine too.
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Am sure you're aware of this but seemed an opportunity to highlight the point as in my experience there's still a bit of an urban myth around this.

Unless we're talking very small volumes of income businesses receiving electronic payments is much cheaper for them than taking in cash, somewhere around half the tariff per £100.

As well as the logistical cost of getting to a bank to pay in (far less branches these days) there are Added benefits around clear audit trail and impact on end of year accounts/tax returns as well.

Appreciate businesses need to be seen to support customers however they wish to pay, but I think all of the above when you then factor in covid and the advice to receive payments electronically where possible would make it perfectly acceptable for a park like Towers to go completely cashless.

Some are very stuck in their ways (again not aimed at you directly) and don't realise how simple electronic means of banking really are.

Then of course there are the tax dodgers who cost the UK economy an obscene amount of money each year..
 
I agree with all of that, it was the generalisation that only the old and criminals use cash these days that I was challenging.
Oversimplification of the facts, the statement made was simply not true.
And far more tax is dodged through electronic means than the cash economy.
 
I find it baffling that Alton Towers now has the worst operating hours of the four Merlin parks in the UK this week after consistently having the best last week. Chessington and Legoland have lost 2 hours, Thorpe have only lost 1, but Alton have lost 4! The former 3 are also open until 5pm which is the bare minimum it should be!
 
Danscott22 said:
I find it baffling that Alton Towers now has the worst operating hours of the four Merlin parks in the UK this week after consistently having the best last week. Chessington and Legoland have lost 2 hours, Thorpe have only lost 1, but Alton have lost 4! The former 3 are also open until 5pm which is the bare minimum it should be!
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I imagine they are saving the operating budget on off peak days to be used towards later opening on peak days.

In other words, the only reason they could stay open until 8pm last week, is because they are controlling costs by closing at 4pm this week.

Not that I agree with 4pm closes of course, it’s just the way they are managing the budgets seems different to other parks in the group.
 
There's a few shuttles with new/refreshed restraints, but plenty with old ones too. Just standard maintenance though, there's usually a couple of rows at least with new restraints every season.
 
It’s pretty normal for them to replace restraints every now and then. Usually on a train by train basis as they undergo maintenance etc.

Edit: posted at same time as Craig!
 
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