jon81uk
TS Member
It is possible the power grid couldn't support it, especially for high power charging. But as guests would normally be parked up for eight hours (or longer if hotel guests) they wouldn't need the high power chargers anyway.
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2023: General Discussion
Blackhole_Sun
TS Member
Problem with the high powered charging points is that most charging will be completed well inside half your time in the park. No one is going to leave the park, move their car to take off/put on charge. Then there is the sheer volume of cars going. First come first serve.
Just won’t work here. I assume that’s why it’s not been done.
Islander
TS Member
If the power grid can support large coasters, it can definitely support car chargers.
jon81uk
TS Member
I’m no power expert, but what if there is only enough to supply the coasters and that’s why they can’t add lots of charging? But the low powered chargers shouldn’t be an issue though.
Islander
TS Member
Well, they'll have problems with Project Horizon then...
Seriously though, if they are at the limit of their main incomers, then of course they'll have to increase that for Horizon, but they won't have been at capacity for the last 10 years given the rides and other additions they've made since then. Besides, the draw of a car charger will be negligible to the draw of, say, Wickerman.
DistortAMG
TS Member
Load balancing the power was always an issue at Alton Towers, may have improved in recent times. Specifically on that side of the park. I am pretty certain this is the reason why Ripsaw mostly only ever operated tame settings when being used in tandem with the Skyride. Catch a ride on it after dark after the Skyride had closed however, they could run much more intense settings without the risk tripping the FV breakers.
Not sure if they have any other power related issues, but some EV chargers would not pose a significant load balancing issue IMO. Not compared to some hefty electric motors, constantly changing speed and inverting their motion as was the case with Ripsaw. That puts significant surges into the grid and needed some hefty electrical equipment to try and help mitigate the strain it put on the local grid in FV.
This could potentially explain reasons why the park opt for less and less flat rides. They may not want to spend the money on very costly electrical infrastructure. Sure, a rollercoaster may use more power overall, in some cases. But the way a large flat ride (non of which the park currently operate) uses power very, very differently than that of a coaster. They can put far more strain on the grid.
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djtruefitt
TS Team
It seems to be Merlin all over. I know Thorpe have had some chargers for many years now, no idea if they are still there or work. But as far as I know Chessie or Lego don’t have any do they?
Squiggs
TS Team
I don't think it's specific to that side of the park. The reason why Spinball Whizzer doesn't have a shop is because the relevant substation couldn't support both a retail and F&B unit. It was questionable as to whether it could support the on ride photo booth.
It does make me wonder if power balancing was one of the deciding factor in the closure of the ice show the following season, as I would imagine the ice machine would have been powered from the same substation and also rather power hungry.
Islander
TS Member
I’m not gonna overly question this, as your knowledge on towers’ history is vast, but does seem odd. A retail unit really is a very, very small power draw, when compared to pretty much anything else at a theme park.
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A retail unit draws absolutely sod all current off the power grid compared to other units (e.g. F&B with electric cooking) or rides.
A retail unit - e.g. a ride exit one - will typically be open air walk-in / walk-out, so they won't bother with over the entrance & exit fan heaters to try to maintain the temperature. It may sell chilled drinks / ice-creams, so a big fridge & a freezer running. A retail unit (as opposed to F&B unit) is unlikely to do any more than this. The only other power would be for lighting, the tills & and ancillary stuff like illuminated advertising etc.
I know a fair bit about the power distribution at Towers (worked there for 6yrs). They claim any of the 3 substations can support the entire park, but this is not true. If one goes, they are in trouble right away. The FV substation behind the "Air Gates" is the most loaded one by far. It powers the Valley, Skyride Maindrive, the hotels, accommodation & waterpark. Bare in mind waterparks eat energy (although the water is heated by gas). All the Enchanted Village & Pig Sheds are heated by electricity. Towers are probably off the hook a bit this season with Nemesis being down, as this reduced the draw on the FV substation by a lot.
Putting Towers aside, I do think the government needs to seriously look at the 2030 ban on new fossil-fuel powered cars. (I would be saying this irrespective of the party of the government in power). The infrastructure is NOT in place to support electric cars even now. Over the New Year there were pictures in the press of Tesla owners at Gretna Services waiting up to 3hrs for a charge.
A theme park does not lend itself to the EV charging model as guests will be on-park all day, so if it's a high-current charger they will block it all day when they are on-park when they only need a few hours for a full charge. Center Parcs have the same issue - they now make you book an EV charger as an "activity" at extra cost - you do get it for the duration of your break though.
Suffice it to say I will be ensuring I get a new petrol or diesel car in 2029 if the government in power after the next election does not see sense.
Dave
TS Founding Member
Im no expert on this but surely someone has thought of a charging option for mid-speed charging (6-8hrs) that is less power hungry for places like theme parks where people will be parked for a while?
Then again maybe they know the market isn’t there, I don’t have an EV but I am a 2hr drive from Towers and based on real world settings I could easily do a return trip to the park on one charge, so why pay a premium to charge there?
Then again maybe they know the market isn’t there, I don’t have an EV but I am a 2hr drive from Towers and based on real world settings I could easily do a return trip to the park on one charge, so why pay a premium to charge there?
DistortAMG
TS Member
I think the technology as it is, is crap at best. Especially for places like Towers, one of many use cases.
I think we need to see an evolution of the charging technology before it is viable for use cases such as Towers. Wireless induction charging being a possible solution if and when it comes. The current technology for wireless car charging is not the best for many reasons I do not think.
I think we need to see an evolution of the charging technology before it is viable for use cases such as Towers. Wireless induction charging being a possible solution if and when it comes. The current technology for wireless car charging is not the best for many reasons I do not think.
John
TS Member
In theory they could reduce the number of electric charging points they need by offering valet parking for electric car users. You'd hand over your keys and they'll plug your car in once a charger is available, then move it out of the way when its done. Admittedly this doesn't solve the problem of the park needing a more substantial power supply to rapid charge dozens of EVs simultaneously.
The only alternative at the moment would be a very large number of slow chargers, as realistically you'll have 1 EV per charger per day. Currently if you have an EV and live far from towers you're forced to seek charging points elsewhere. Currently there's probably not enough EVs out there for the park to see this as a major issue but they can't ignore it forever.
The only alternative at the moment would be a very large number of slow chargers, as realistically you'll have 1 EV per charger per day. Currently if you have an EV and live far from towers you're forced to seek charging points elsewhere. Currently there's probably not enough EVs out there for the park to see this as a major issue but they can't ignore it forever.
Squiggs
TS Team
I know, it seems unlikely. Bizarre even. But the e-mail exchange is documented in the actual Alton Towers archive, with the level of detail that would be back up the e-mails are being written by someone who clearly had done their research and new that between the ride and the F&B they had pushed the Adventure Land substation to its limits. And equally the budget for Spinball at that point was so tight they also did not have the money in the ride development to upgrade the substation.
I looked into a fully electric van a couple of years ago for work.
Apart from the astronomic cost compared to a regular small van, my benchmark was could it get me to the Towers and back comfortably on a single charge with a quick top up charge at the motorway services.
Benchmark test failed.
So I purchased a dinosaur 4*4 top of the range shed for precisely one twentieth of the cost, and got very lucky.
I don't do social media...anyone fancy asking the Towers why it has taken over a decade to make their mind up about fitting chargers, as they have been "considering" on the matter for so long?
Prevarication and obfuscation only work for the first three thousand days, after that it is called fibbing, or worse.
No commitment from Merlin at all on environmental matters.
Apart from the astronomic cost compared to a regular small van, my benchmark was could it get me to the Towers and back comfortably on a single charge with a quick top up charge at the motorway services.
Benchmark test failed.
So I purchased a dinosaur 4*4 top of the range shed for precisely one twentieth of the cost, and got very lucky.
I don't do social media...anyone fancy asking the Towers why it has taken over a decade to make their mind up about fitting chargers, as they have been "considering" on the matter for so long?
Prevarication and obfuscation only work for the first three thousand days, after that it is called fibbing, or worse.
No commitment from Merlin at all on environmental matters.
havaska
TS Member
I have an electric car and getting it was one of the best decisions I’ve made. Yes it cost more upfront but the running costs are significantly lower so my overall cost of ownership is actually lower.
Towers would only need destination chargers which pump out around 7kw per socket. A residential house can comfortably draw double this so they absolutely do have enough supply to install some chargers.
The fact that they haven’t got any even at the hotels, is just Merlin all over. It’s an extra revenue stream they’re missing out on because they’re short sighted.
Towers would only need destination chargers which pump out around 7kw per socket. A residential house can comfortably draw double this so they absolutely do have enough supply to install some chargers.
The fact that they haven’t got any even at the hotels, is just Merlin all over. It’s an extra revenue stream they’re missing out on because they’re short sighted.
djtruefitt
TS Team
I went away in the summer to Europe and we had an electric car, almost all the theme parks we went to had some form of electric charging, sometimes it was even free. The likes of Efteling, Plopsa, Walibi Holland, Hellendorn, Slagharen,
Danscott22
TS Member
According to someone going to the buyout day this Sunday, they have received an email stating this weekends closures include the Retro Squad, and Spinball Whizzer.