Why would it improve, of course it wouldn't, it would continue as it is. Though i've not heard much from any of the main parties about fixing this one.
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2024 UK general election predictions and general discussion.
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Why would it improve, of course it wouldn't, it would continue as it is. Though i've not heard much from any of the main parties about fixing this one.
Benzin
TS Member
Once manifestos are actually released might be more.
Problem is that all the essentials have been run to the ground whilst those sectors that have been privatised are constantly raising prices to make sure the shareholders get paid more and more each year. Just ignore the raw sewage being dumped into the sea, it'll do your body good to have some disease.
Ideal world is that all kids get the same level of education. And the distinct drop of services to assist those who need extra help means that the teachers end up having to deal with more way above their paygrade.
No chance I can afford to put little one into the local private one, even with the benefits considered. So like many, have to make do with the state schools.
Problem is that all the essentials have been run to the ground whilst those sectors that have been privatised are constantly raising prices to make sure the shareholders get paid more and more each year. Just ignore the raw sewage being dumped into the sea, it'll do your body good to have some disease.
Ideal world is that all kids get the same level of education. And the distinct drop of services to assist those who need extra help means that the teachers end up having to deal with more way above their paygrade.
No chance I can afford to put little one into the local private one, even with the benefits considered. So like many, have to make do with the state schools.
@Benzin - you make a good point actually about those with extra needs, and I forgot to add to my original post, but many children with special needs are having to go to private schools because the state schools cant provide them with the level of support they require.
A 20% VAT on private schooling is also going to hit these kids who need this extra help. While yes a state school should be able to provide this, currently many cannot and parents are forced to pay for their child's education.
We looked into a private school but the cost was £16k a year, which would increase each year. We decided it to be too expensive and ours goes to a state school. But, if we had the extra funds we would have sent him to the private school as the only state school available to us in our area is currently rated as "needing improvement". I don't feel any bitterness though to those who are sending their children to a private school, ultimately, it means the classroom sizes are smaller in the state schools!
Private schooling in Britain: a snapshot
Summary This briefing note provides a snap-shot of Britain’s independent schools, using data from the Independent Schools Council (ISC) annual census. The latest census (2022) shows that 544,316[1]…
www.civitas.org.uk
A 20% VAT on private schooling is also going to hit these kids who need this extra help. While yes a state school should be able to provide this, currently many cannot and parents are forced to pay for their child's education.
We looked into a private school but the cost was £16k a year, which would increase each year. We decided it to be too expensive and ours goes to a state school. But, if we had the extra funds we would have sent him to the private school as the only state school available to us in our area is currently rated as "needing improvement". I don't feel any bitterness though to those who are sending their children to a private school, ultimately, it means the classroom sizes are smaller in the state schools!
jon81uk
TS Member
Although some of this feels a bit chicken and egg, there is a shortage of NHS dentists because many can make more money going private.
Ultimately we need to pay more taxes so we can pay more dentists and doctors and teachers.
Matt N
TS Member
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I swear I remember there being a party manifesto once that pledged to legalise marijuana... I think it might have been the Liberal Democrats?How about they legalize marijuana and make a fortune off the tax? Also frees up the police somewhat to concentrate on more important things. Oh yeah, I forgot, that's actually helpful and a bit radical so they won't do that. Let's tax education instead
I seem to remember it from one of the mock elections back in secondary school, where a peer of mine gave "legal weed" as their main reason for voting Lib Dem...
Yes and no. I was speaking to my dentist about this on my last visit.
According to him, the contract NHS dentists are employed under does not cover the costs of the procedures and many dental practices make a loss. He said himself, and other practices were forced to move to private in order to stay open. He gave the example of a root canal. Its a specialised procedure usually done by an endodontist. Can take over an hour to do in some cases.
On the NHS, such a procedure would cost the patient £73.50. The practice will get a contracted block amount from the NHS towards the cost. However, my dentist explained that this does not cover the cost of (a) the expertise of the person doing the surgery (b) the materials (c) the cost of running the practice (d) the time taken to perform the surgery. As the contract does not cover this, reluctantly, the practices switch from NHS to private else they will close down.
Yes, they may earn more money doing work privately, but for many that's not the deciding factor.
@BarryZola - I agree.
I have just waited four and a half years for nhs surgery...so don't give me two years!
I could have paid a grand for a consultants private appointment, to shove me up the (his) nhs list and get my surgery sooner.
But I didn't get fasttrack, because I felt it would be unfair on people who needed the surgery as much as me, but didn't have the money to push in.
That is how a lot of people actually do it, in real terms...without going private.
Not fair, especially by nhs trained consultants.
In education, class number limits are (theoretically) fixed, so there is no additional overcrowding with new pupils from the private sector...
jon81uk
TS Member
Then we need higher taxes in order to pay for more dentists, doctors and teachers to be employed by the NHS and schools. One way would be to charge VAT on luxury items like private schools.
Totally disagree @rob666 - Why should people pay more for healthcare and dentistry if they can’t get what they need from the state. You can’t get a NHS dentist in the south west full stop - so what option do we have but to pay for it? I already pay for it via National Insurance, but I can’t get one. I believe the south west is one of the worst places in the UK to get a NHS dentist. Yet you want to charge us more even though it’s a necessity?
@jon81uk there are plenty of dentists, but most are switching from NHS to private for the reasons listed above. Some may switch back if the NHS contracts were changed.
So currently the above are necessary, maybe in the future they will be seen as unnecessary and a luxury. We can hope.
@jon81uk there are plenty of dentists, but most are switching from NHS to private for the reasons listed above. Some may switch back if the NHS contracts were changed.
So currently the above are necessary, maybe in the future they will be seen as unnecessary and a luxury. We can hope.
jon81uk
TS Member
Sorry I should have been more specific, we need higher taxes to pay for more NHS dentists, doctors and for state school teachers. One way to get more taxes to pay more to dentists would be to tax luxuries like private education.
When things like this are a luxury fair enough. But the point I’m trying to make is that at the moment for some it’s not a luxury but a necessity.
There are lots of other ways to raise taxes. When was the last time alcohol duty went up yet it’s a major contributory factor to pressures on the NHS.
Car tax - same rates each year if I buy a Ferrari or a Toyota.
£60k Rolex watch - same VAT rate as a £9 watch from Argos.
You can tax the rich more on products they buy and not increase the burden on those who buy things out of necessity.
There are lots of other ways to raise taxes. When was the last time alcohol duty went up yet it’s a major contributory factor to pressures on the NHS.
Car tax - same rates each year if I buy a Ferrari or a Toyota.
£60k Rolex watch - same VAT rate as a £9 watch from Argos.
You can tax the rich more on products they buy and not increase the burden on those who buy things out of necessity.
I hear what you are saying, but I am stating that private "whatever" is not the solution to the problem, it is a short term answer for those that have the ability to afford it.
Those lucky enough to have vehicles and nearby cities, can often get good quality treatment at their local dental hospital, my sister swore by them in Leeds and Manchester for decades.
There are about twenty around the country, all accessible for free or at nhs rates with a doctors letter...(I think, that is how it used to work).
And there is no need for pliers, in extremes, there is access to emergency treatment for extreme pain and swelling in most hospitals in the UK.
BarryZola
TS Member
Why have I not heard anything about Labour or Tories stopping 'Right to Buy' council houses either? We've already lost too many. It's obvious that it is causing councils problems by reducing their housing stock for needy people. Easy fixes that they just refuse to carry out. It's almost as if they like more and more people being at the mercy of private landlords (such as themsleves)... 
IanB
TS Member
VAT is a good example of the rich paying more tax. It is progressive. In the example above, the Rolex watch would generated £10,000 in taxes, compared to only £1.50 for the watch from Argos.
It feels like its Taboo to mention tax rises, and Labour is scared to do so, because they know the Torys and National Media will come down hard on them if they do, but with the current state of things, I would not have an issue with paying £50 a month more tax if it meant more Doctors, Dentists and Teachers. Is putting the Higher Rate and Additional Rate up by 1% and 2% going to cause all these people to leave the UK, its unlikely, and I suspect would raise more. Nobody likes paying taxes, everyone would like to pay less tax, but the choice is less tax, more private services or more tax, and less private services.
Even if you don't have kids, you should still want investment in schools, as these children will hopefully grow up to become Doctors, and Dentists and other skilled workers to keep things ticking over.
Giving key workers the salary they deserve, is needed to encourage people to enter and stay in these professions, might upset those who are not seeing similar increases, but that's the whole point, to encourage people to go in to those professions.
jon81uk
TS Member
But its only a necessity for you to use a private dentist because the NHS has been underfunded. Get taxes right and fund the NHS properly so they pay dentists and more people have access to it. Also the nature of taxes means those earning more pay more.
The way alcohol duty works changed completly August 2023. Its now based on the percentage alcohol rather as well as the type of product.
Cars with a list price over £40,000 pay an additional £410 a year for five years.
But the VAT is a percentage so the person buying the £60k watch is paying £10k in tax, the £9 watch only £1.50. I don't think there is a need for different higher VAT rates, but maybe reviewing what is 0% is needed.
There are definitely things moving on this, Andy Burnham has gone strongly against it and I think Labour could move against it. I was reading about it recently but can't find the exact article, some think the Angela Raynor thing has made it harder for Labour to speak out about right to buy unfortuantly.Why have I not heard anything about Labour or Tories stopping 'Right to Buy' council houses either? We've already lost too many. It's obvious that it is causing councils problems by reducing their housing stock for needy people. Easy fixes that they just refuse to carry out. It's almost as if they like more and more people being at the mercy of private landlords (such as themsleves)...
Four in 10 council homes sold under Right to Buy now owned by private landlords
Four out of every 10 council homes sold off through Right to Buy are now being rented out, think tank New Economics Foundation has found.
Manchester: Andy Burnham wants to suspend Right to Buy scheme
Labour's Andy Burnham says the scheme is making the housing crisis "worse every year".
www.bbc.co.uk