Dave
TS Founding Member
Power cuts were common in 2010 & 2013 too. I think they just don't have a good supply to the park
Probably was 2013 and that makes me feel old
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[202X] Project Ocean: New Forbidden Valley Flat Ride
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Probably was 2013 and that makes me feel old
DistortAMG
TS Member
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- POTC Disneyland Paris
The thing with the top spin motors, is they have two per side, to drive the arm as it moves in each direction, for a total of 4.
As the arms rapidly change direction, the setup of a top spin means that the forward drive and backwards drive motors are constantly stopping and starting throughput the cycle, to facilitate this rapid change in direction. They only have static reduction gearbox's as that is all you can fit near the arm bearings where the motors are. The more intense cycles usually means the motors start and stop more frequently and rapidly. The engineering setup of these rides are (or were) not the best for parks with flakey power supplys. For the above mentioned reasons.
An example of how other ride types mitigate this, take a ride such as a gyro swing as a single example of many. They use a varible reduction and and bi directional gearbox setup, (Like your car gearbox actually, but a huge, heavy unit on Intamin Gyro Swings). Meaning the motors pretty much run at a single speed from cycle start to end, putting much, much less strain on the controllers and grid. As the gearbox is doing all the heavy lifting. It's a great setup, but you simply cannot mount gearboxes like this to the side of a top spin, they would be way to big and heavy for the amount of torque needed to drive a top spin. A gearbox that would need a lorry to transport, impracticable to mount on the side of a top spin arm. So they have to brute force it.
In Drayton Manors case, they struggled to fit the gearbox on a flat bed lorry when being transported to the park it was so big, good luck to HUSS in getting one of those on the relatively small side arms of a topspin, I am sure they have tried and failed. The total KW draw of the rides are very similar too, they are just designed very differently.
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Sorry, I forget not everyone has worked in my world for 15years!
Firstly, most people (reasonably) think their house is supplied by national grid. That's not true, national grid operate a system closest to the motorway. Big pylons ( and a few big underground cables) only.
Similar to the road network this then has to be stepped down to the equivalent of A/B roads which are operated by distribution network operators. In the Staffordshire area that is national grid electricity distribution (NGED).
Next issue. Your house gets supply at 240V it's then your responsibility to move the power around your house. It's also your responsibility to turn the voltage down for appliances that need it (for example to 5V for a.phone charger). Similarly the DNO will likely provide one supply to Alton towers. Alton towers then have to move it around their site and reduce it as required. Most likely Alton towers get it at 11 or 33kV. They will then build transformers to supply attractions/shops as needed. If there isnt enough power in forbidden valley, it's for Alton towers to fix, not the DNO.
In terms of motor starts. A 100kW motor could easily pull 500kW when it starts. That will only last a few seconds at most, not enough to overheat a cable or transformer, but enough time for the voltage to drop. Potentially by 10-20V or more. Many controllers will have cutouts for safety reasons and will shut down if voltage gets too low causing problems. You can mitigate this by reducing the resistance to the motor by adding infrastructure or injecting power to counter the voltage drop (with a battery or capacitor). I'm a bit sceptical a battery could economically provide power fast enough to deal with voltage drop (500kW is an expensive battery) but a capacitor might be possible. Ultimately 500kW transformers that would minimise the disruption from one ride to others cost maybe 20-50k I'm sure that could be eaten to have a new flat running well.
DistortAMG
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- POTC Disneyland Paris
It's made me realise actually, Ripsaw never had it's own substation before, 95% sure it never. It always fed from the sub station under the Skyride station.
A ride like that, you are gonna need a substation else you will cause problems due to the constant motor stopping and started mentioned above. It looks like a substation is indeed built into the new plans for whatever they are building.
Going back to Maelstrom at Drayton, (because the rides have similar power requirements, just they use it way differently) they built a substation for that attraction, it is hidden in one of the storm damaged buildings and supplys that attraction and nothing else. Except Maelstrom starts the three motors it has once per cycle, a topspin starts and stops it's 4 motors in pairs, many times a cycle.
The rides share quite similar torque and power requirements though. So you can assume a gearbox of similar size would be needed if they used the same gearing setup as a gyro swing.
This picture below will eloquently explain why they can't use the same gearbox setup on a Huss top spin as they can on an Intamin gyro swing much better than I can.
With a few cans of WD40, you may be able to slip one of of these bad boys into a tight crevice on each of the top spins pylons, someone call HUSS quick, Alton have many cans of WD40.......yeah right.
The scale of the people between the above and below photos should give you a good indication of why this simply is not possibly. You can also see two of the four motors below, coloured in yellow and black, two also on the opposite side hidden from view, roughtly the size of an adult, not small units. You can also see the very basic gearbox these rides have. As you can see the small cogs above the motors that connect to the big cogs hidden in the arms. Seeing this photo though, it is pretty obvious there is no real other way. You are not fitting a huge gear box to these, it's borderline impossible.
It is not like you could reduce the size of the gearbox much either, the physical size is needed due to the input and output torque requirements which is a physical limitation, combined with the reverse and stepping gears, you can't shrink them like electronics, doesn't work that way. You would just end up with a pile of shredded shrapnel on the floor that used to call itself a gearbox.
Intamin and ABB have now actually packed all this into a single large variable speed motor an advance control system setup on the newer generation gyro swings, that also gives power back to the grid through some sort of regenerative braking system as seen in the link above on Loke in Lisiberg. This setup mitigates the need to a huge gearbox. I'll be interested to see what technological innovations are in the newer generation top spins, if one comes to Alton. I could see a system like this working really well on the newer top spins. They also used varible speed motors but this takes it to the next level I think.
It would be quite fitting if they themed this new top spin, if that's what it is, to some sort of modern electrical based weapon such as a rail gun, fighting Nemesis and called it Power Surge.
A ride like that, you are gonna need a substation else you will cause problems due to the constant motor stopping and started mentioned above. It looks like a substation is indeed built into the new plans for whatever they are building.
Going back to Maelstrom at Drayton, (because the rides have similar power requirements, just they use it way differently) they built a substation for that attraction, it is hidden in one of the storm damaged buildings and supplys that attraction and nothing else. Except Maelstrom starts the three motors it has once per cycle, a topspin starts and stops it's 4 motors in pairs, many times a cycle.
The rides share quite similar torque and power requirements though. So you can assume a gearbox of similar size would be needed if they used the same gearing setup as a gyro swing.
This picture below will eloquently explain why they can't use the same gearbox setup on a Huss top spin as they can on an Intamin gyro swing much better than I can.
With a few cans of WD40, you may be able to slip one of of these bad boys into a tight crevice on each of the top spins pylons, someone call HUSS quick, Alton have many cans of WD40.......yeah right.
The scale of the people between the above and below photos should give you a good indication of why this simply is not possibly. You can also see two of the four motors below, coloured in yellow and black, two also on the opposite side hidden from view, roughtly the size of an adult, not small units. You can also see the very basic gearbox these rides have. As you can see the small cogs above the motors that connect to the big cogs hidden in the arms. Seeing this photo though, it is pretty obvious there is no real other way. You are not fitting a huge gear box to these, it's borderline impossible.
It is not like you could reduce the size of the gearbox much either, the physical size is needed due to the input and output torque requirements which is a physical limitation, combined with the reverse and stepping gears, you can't shrink them like electronics, doesn't work that way. You would just end up with a pile of shredded shrapnel on the floor that used to call itself a gearbox.
Intamin and ABB have now actually packed all this into a single large variable speed motor an advance control system setup on the newer generation gyro swings, that also gives power back to the grid through some sort of regenerative braking system as seen in the link above on Loke in Lisiberg. This setup mitigates the need to a huge gearbox. I'll be interested to see what technological innovations are in the newer generation top spins, if one comes to Alton. I could see a system like this working really well on the newer top spins. They also used varible speed motors but this takes it to the next level I think.
It would be quite fitting if they themed this new top spin, if that's what it is, to some sort of modern electrical based weapon such as a rail gun, fighting Nemesis and called it Power Surge.
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QTXAdsy
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Black Hole
As I said before, given how Galactica has barely been touched, maybe they have bigger plans for the area in which is part of a part 2 of a Forbidden Valley revamp which could explain why only half the area is getting attention?
DistortAMG
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- POTC Disneyland Paris
Isn't an oasis in the middle of a desert though? The exact opposite of an ocean?
I think these are the gearboxesIt's made me realise actually, Ripsaw never had it's own substation before, 95% sure it never. It always fed from the sub station under the Skyride station.
A ride like that, you are gonna need a substation else you will cause problems due to the constant motor stopping and started mentioned above. It looks like a substation is indeed built into the new plans for whatever they are building.
Going back to Maelstrom at Drayton, (because the rides have similar power requirements, just they use it way differently) they built a substation for that attraction, it is hidden in one of the storm damaged buildings and supplys that attraction and nothing else. Except Maelstrom starts the three motors it has once per cycle, a topspin starts and stops it's 4 motors in pairs, many times a cycle.
The rides share quite similar torque and power requirements though. So you can assume a gearbox of similar size would be needed if they used the same gearing setup as a gyro swing.
This picture below will eloquently explain why they can't use the same gearbox setup on a Huss top spin as they can on an Intamin gyro swing much better than I can.
With a few cans of WD40, you may be able to slip one of of these bad boys into a tight crevice on each of the top spins pylons, someone call HUSS quick, Alton have many cans of WD40.......yeah right.
The scale of the people between the above and below photos should give you a good indication of why this simply is not possibly. You can also see two of the four motors below, coloured in yellow and black, two also on the opposite side hidden from view, roughtly the size of an adult, not small units. You can also see the very basic gearbox these rides have. As you can see the small cogs above the motors that connect to the big cogs hidden in the arms. Seeing this photo though, it is pretty obvious there is no real other way. You are not fitting a huge gear box to these, it's borderline impossible.
It is not like you could reduce the size of the gearbox much either, the physical size is needed due to the input and output torque requirements which is a physical limitation, combined with the reverse and stepping gears, you can't shrink them like electronics, doesn't work that way. You would just end up with a pile of shredded shrapnel on the floor that used to call itself a gearbox.
Inttamin and ABB have now actually pack all this into a single large variable speed motor an advance control system setup on the newer generation gyro swings, that also gives power back to the grid through some sort of regenerative braking system as seen in the like above on Loke in Lisiberg. This setup mitigates the need to a huge gearbox. I'll be interested to see what technological innovations are in the newer generation top spins, if one comes to Alton. I could see a system like this working really well on the newer top spins. They also used varible speed motors but this takes it to the next level I think.
It would be quite fitting if they themed this new top spin, if that's what it is, to some sort of modern electrical based weapon such as a rail gun, fighting Nemesis and called it Power Surge.
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Jb85
TS Member
Well yes, my link was the letter O - should have elaborated
DistortAMG
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- POTC Disneyland Paris
More than likely yes. Or at least part of them. Tiny in comparison though!
are they not on the floor in that photo..? you can also see on ripsaw where they have been removed.
DistortAMG
TS Member
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- POTC Disneyland Paris
Sorry, I edited my post before you quoted this. I saw them after. Yes part of them.
Tim
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Air / Blue Fire
Or it's a reference to Project Horizon. The Ocean comes in front of the Horizon.
Pure speculation, but a fun idea.
Steve74
TS Member
Maybe Project Exodus was referring to the idea that if Hyperia fails to draw in the crowds, Merlin could exit Thorpe!Probably worth remembering that Hyperia was 'Project Exodus'. If that's anything to go by, these project names are tenuously linked to the ride theme at best.
Could be themed around Angry Birds for all we know ().
The_bup
TS Member
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- Professor Burpās Bubbleworks
I thought it was because it was old townās replacement. They had to get rid of the buckwheats in creak freak. One might say it was a mass exodusMaybe Project Exodus was referring to the idea that if Hyperia fails to draw in the crowds, Merlin could exit Thorpe!
Meanwhile, I have no idea why it is called project ocean, and i think itāll be pretty pointless to decipher it now, but it will make sense after the fact I reckon.