Coronavirus

[Swarm Chris]

was there large gatherings of people hanging around for hours? If not then even if the distancing wasn’t great it’s unlikely it was driving a huge spike in cases.

Thorpe Park says hello.

Yes, outdoors is better than indoors, but there were very large groups of predominantly younger people stood in very close proximity to each other for typically more than 2 hours.

 

[Alsty]

Although the current spike in cases is something we should be concerned with, it does need to be seen in context.

This BBC news article reports that at the end of March there were potentially 100,000 cases per day rather than the official 6,000 figure. This was due to the inadequacies of testing. When seen in this perspective, the current spike is not so bad:

That's not to say we should be complacent but there is no need to panic.

 

[Danza91]

^ Totally agree. My family, and many people within my friendship group, all had mild symptoms March time but there was no testing available to confirm it. Loss/change of smell was the main symptom, it was strange it took so long for that to be confirmed as one of the main ones.

Some good news for any runners out there as parkrun will resume next month. A much needed physical and mental boost for many people.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/54062818

 

[Jb85]

That's exactly how they have come to the conclusion that the figures are rising.

I do believe they are

 

[Vik]

Reading around various places today, seems Matt Hancocks comments yesterday have pretty much alientated a whole generation of young people. They are pretty much alienated anyway, but his comments seem to have put the cat amongst the pigeons. Any thought he may of had that getting people to comply with his demands making comments like that he can put to bed. Expect anything but. When people get alientated, especially a whole section of society, things can get ugly quite quickly.
As someone commented, Matt Hancock has killed more grannies than any of us ever will, not only that, he also killed the grandads as well.

A rapid dash around ASDA this morning, and I felt pretty much out of place wearing a mask. Oddly enough, the highest compliance were from the Granny Killing group, and probably around 70% of the grannies, which was the significant portion of the shoppers in there were maskless or wearing them as chin ornaments. i felt so out of place I took mine off as I approached the self service tills.

I feel for those who won't or indeed can't leave their houses until things get under control. I feel it will be a very very long wait, if ever.

 

[jon81uk]

A rapid dash around ASDA this morning, and I felt pretty much out of place wearing a mask. Oddly enough, the highest compliance were from the Granny Killing group, and probably around 70% of the grannies, which was the significant portion of the shoppers in there were maskless or wearing them as chin ornaments. i felt so out of place I took mine off as I approached the self service tills.

I think more stores need to take a hardline approach to mask wearing to get compliance. Of course a small number of people cannot wear one, but far more are just wearing them incorrectly.

We shopped at Costco at the weekend, where you need membership to shop. We had to queue to get in and then when checking membership cards, the staff were also checking people had masks on and shouting down the queue to have mask on and membership cards ready.

If Asda and other supermarkets did the same and challenged mask use at entry it would definitely help I think.

I have only challenged one person, on a busy train I was standing and someone was close, with a mask on but not covering their nose, I asked them to pull it up as the busy train means I can't keep 2m away and they did as I asked which was nice. If they didn't have a mask at all I would have just put more effort into getting the 2m distance from them.

 

[imanautie]

I think more stores need to take a hardline approach to mask wearing to get compliance. Of course a small number of people cannot wear one, but far more are just wearing them incorrectly.

We shopped at Costco at the weekend, where you need membership to shop. We had to queue to get in and then when checking membership cards, the staff were also checking people had masks on and shouting down the queue to have mask on and membership cards ready.

If Asda and other supermarkets did the same and challenged mask use at entry it would definitely help I think.

I have only challenged one person, on a busy train I was standing and someone was close, with a mask on but not covering their nose, I asked them to pull it up as the busy train means I can't keep 2m away and they did as I asked which was nice. If they didn't have a mask at all I would have just put more effort into getting the 2m distance from them.

Well Sainsbury's official approach is never question anyone, Asda is apparently up to colleague disgression if they question or not which I think is the right approach, leaves security free to gently prompt someone and if they flip out to that boot them.

 

[Rob]

I must be lucky with where I live, as mask wearing compliance is extremely high. There is always the odd one who has the mask but it is round their chin, however that is to be expected.

 

[Alsty]

I was in Germany last week and the compliance was much higher, but I agree, the reason why is because anybody not wearing a mask or wearing it incorrectly was challenged. Once challenged, everybody I saw then put their mask on properly and kept it on. Maybe there's a hardline of people who don't but the vast majority will comply when somebody pulls them up on it.

 

[Vik]

It’s not the job of staff at supermarkets to enforce the law. That is the job of the police. Policy is don’t challenge. If staff have concerns that people are not wearing masks they should call the police. Though don’t expect them to attend. I believe Cheshire police policy is to only attend if there is the potential for a public order issue or other crime.

 

[imanautie]

It’s not the job of staff at supermarkets to enforce the law. That is the job of the police. Policy is don’t challenge. If staff have concerns that people are not wearing masks they should call the police. Though don’t expect them to attend. I believe Cheshire police policy is to only attend if there is the potential for a public order issue or other crime.

Realistically the only time police act on non compliance is when it's btp patrolling a train...

 

[Alsty]

But if staff said to everybody coming in, "Wear your mask please" then most people would and they would do so without any fuss. Nobody is asking you to detain or engage further with those who refuse.

 

[imanautie]

But if staff said to everybody coming in, "Wear your mask please" then most people would and they would do so without any fuss. Nobody is asking you to detain or engage further with those who refuse.

Now that's a good point sometimes it just takes being verbally promoted because people don't read signage.

 

[Vik]

Realistically the only time police act on non compliance is when it's btp patrolling a train...

Indeed. There is a video of such on a train from Liverpool Central to my home town and the guy in question also lives in said town

I believe the officer involved has now been suspended but don’t have any confirmation as such more Chinese whispers.

 

[jon81uk]

It’s not the job of staff at supermarkets to enforce the law. That is the job of the police. Policy is don’t challenge. If staff have concerns that people are not wearing masks they should call the police. Though don’t expect them to attend. I believe Cheshire police policy is to only attend if there is the potential for a public order issue or other crime.

This is the other difference I think with shopping at Costco, it is their store policy that everyone should wear a mask (unless exempt) so their staff are enforcing the policy not just the law.

But supermarket security are happy to intervene when the alarm goes off and someone is maybe stealing something, they don't wait for the police then. If its not the job of supermarket staff to enforce the law then why are they picking to enforce theft and shoplifting law?

There is nothing stopping supermarkets with security staff from asking people with masks to wear it properly.

 

[jon81uk]

Now that's a good point sometimes it just takes being verbally promoted because people don't read signage.

Its not even just about reading, even without signage a lot of people know they should have the mask on correctly. By someone asking them to wear it they now know they are being watched and then compliance is improved. People don't need a sign, they know what to do, they just need a feeling of consequences for non-compliance.

 

[Vik]

This is the video on board train at Liverpool central on 2nd September.


Part 2


There is a full video, around 5 mins long, but can't find it at the moment.

Some context to the above :

Initially, after the video was posted, BTP tweeted that the passenger involved had been reported for spitting at other passengers, this later changed to coughing and spitting, and later again changed to Coughing in the direction of other passengers. It was said that a phone call was made to the police and the chap was aprehended at Liverpool Central and asked to leave.

Other passengers on the train said he boarded at Lime Street. The journey from Lime Street to central is about 80 seconds, and making a phone call or text is difficult as its underground. He was apparantly approached by 2 by-law enforcement officers, who are well known for the less than diplomatic approach with dealing with anything and their over excessive use of force if they can't get their won way, and told to wear a mask or he's getting off at the next station. He adviced he was excempt but told tough off at the next station. There was a BTP officer present anyway at Liverpool Central and he took over, which is where the video starts.

There is no doubt that the passenger in question behaved like an absolute idiot and over reacted massively, probably already agitated by the by-law enforcement officers. Though he was perfectly entitled to stand his ground as he beleived he had done nothing wrong, he could of handled it much better. However the officer in question also handled it very badly. He should of called for back up first and tried for a more diplomatic approach in order to get him off the train. Also using pepper spray in a confined environment with other passengers on board? BTP seem less well equiped or indeed properly trained to deal with such situations compared to a normal police officer who I imagine would of handled the whole situation much better.

This is the train involved, it picked up a 6 minute delay at Liverpool Central due to the incident, which is about a minute more than the full length video. The bit missing above is the middle bit and more scuffle between passenger and officer.

 

[John]

For most people a request/reminder would be enough but I imagine a lot of places don't do this because of the minority of entitled folks who'd go off on one if politely asked to wear a mask. Businesses don't want to subject their staff to the inevitable abuse.

 

[jon81uk]

For most people a request/reminder would be enough but I imagine a lot of places don't do this because of the minority of entitled folks who'd go off on one if politely asked to wear a mask. Businesses don't want to subject their staff to the inevitable abuse.

They are quite happy for security staff to approach customers when the alarm system goes off and security think they might be shoplifting. That can also lead to abuse if there are false claims,
I really can't see why the same security guard stood at the door also can't say, "please pull your mask over your nose and mouth" to customers as they enter.
People without a mask at all is a bit more difficult as many will claim exemption even when they aren't exempt.

I'm also not suggesting the standard supermarket staff should be challenging people, but where they have security who have training on dealing with people stealing items, they should be more than capable of asking people to wear a mask correctly.

 

[imanautie]

Just noticed Sainsbury's near me have printed badges (name tag style) for staff who are excempt!