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Football Discussion
- Thread starter Rob
- Start date
BarryZola
TS Member
I think Southgate has this thing about 'the group' and once he's allowed someone into that core group who plays a lot of minutes and he likes their attitude (a happy camp) then he is reluctant to change things. I can see the merit in that to an extent but there has to come a point where for the good of the team and the player theirself they should be replaced. I see that Southgate has had a little rant about Maguires treatment by the press and fans but he's not able to see that he has played a large part in that by insisting on keep playing him instead of giving others a proper chance. Never been a Southgate fan personally though, so there it is.
Skyscraper
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Something very special finally arrived yesterday after being pre-ordered a few months ago...
This charts Sheff Wed's crazy 2022-2023 season, accounting every game.
It's even more special to me as it has my name in it...
This charts Sheff Wed's crazy 2022-2023 season, accounting every game.
It's even more special to me as it has my name in it...
Skyscraper
TS Member
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Skyscraper
TS Member
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We'll be back down by Christmas at this rate, lost yet again on Saturday (0-3 v Swansea). Not as bad as United yesterday though... 0-8 v Newcastle 
. Eight different scorers too, a PL record (and ironically the last time Toon won 8-0 was against the Owls in 1999).
Both Sheffield clubs are doing
in their respective leagues at the moment. 
. Eight different scorers too, a PL record (and ironically the last time Toon won 8-0 was against the Owls in 1999).Both Sheffield clubs are doing
in their respective leagues at the moment.
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Slugjc
TS Member
So VAR.
As a Liverpool supporter. Clearly a big topic at the mo
Before I start I need to make some things clear. 1, the game should not be replayed. 2, VAR should not be scrapped. 3, I understand there maybe some "why always them" sentiment. In which just do one.
The issue from Saturday is clearly the lack of effective communication between the on field refs and stockley park. It would very much appear that stockley park missed the linesman raising a flag. So when they looked back and saw he was on, the line to the ref was "check complete" so, the ref thought ok offside confirmed.
How vague is the line "check complete." In such a high profile game, in the supposedly biggest league In the world. I always thought, talk between ref and stockley park would use clear and efficient language to communicate their point. Clearly now not the case.
In Rugby League as an example. If the ref goes to the screen for a try. He will point what his view on decision. "I have a try, but can you just check all players are onside?" As a example. We then go to an audio of the Video ref, going through the replay. Talking any if all points that could lead to that try being ruled out. When the decision is made, you will hear the line "I have my decision."
The three steps should be.
Check in progress
Decision made.
Then when the game is restarted use check complete.
It's so simple its embarrassing it's not used.
At no point will he talk to the on field ref. Any information on his decision is giving to him via a screen. "Try" or "no try" Some decision will come with instruction on how to restart the game "no try, restart 10m tap" or " no try, restart drop goal."
I'm not saying football needs information realyed via a screen. Even though every PL ground is wrapped around with them. Surely the protocol should have been "check complete, goal Liverpool" or "check complete offside free kick Tottenham" no grey area. No doubts.
The statement realised by the club will hopefully start a serious debate on how the PGMOL is run and how VAR is implemented. How have 4 officials, on duty during that game on Saturday been allowed to go to Dubai and officiate a game played on Thursday. A game played and run by the owners of Manchester City. Who, as we all know lost to wolves the same afternoon. That causes some very serious questions to be asked?
As a Liverpool supporter. Clearly a big topic at the mo
Before I start I need to make some things clear. 1, the game should not be replayed. 2, VAR should not be scrapped. 3, I understand there maybe some "why always them" sentiment. In which just do one.
The issue from Saturday is clearly the lack of effective communication between the on field refs and stockley park. It would very much appear that stockley park missed the linesman raising a flag. So when they looked back and saw he was on, the line to the ref was "check complete" so, the ref thought ok offside confirmed.
How vague is the line "check complete." In such a high profile game, in the supposedly biggest league In the world. I always thought, talk between ref and stockley park would use clear and efficient language to communicate their point. Clearly now not the case.
In Rugby League as an example. If the ref goes to the screen for a try. He will point what his view on decision. "I have a try, but can you just check all players are onside?" As a example. We then go to an audio of the Video ref, going through the replay. Talking any if all points that could lead to that try being ruled out. When the decision is made, you will hear the line "I have my decision."
The three steps should be.
Check in progress
Decision made.
Then when the game is restarted use check complete.
It's so simple its embarrassing it's not used.
At no point will he talk to the on field ref. Any information on his decision is giving to him via a screen. "Try" or "no try" Some decision will come with instruction on how to restart the game "no try, restart 10m tap" or " no try, restart drop goal."
I'm not saying football needs information realyed via a screen. Even though every PL ground is wrapped around with them. Surely the protocol should have been "check complete, goal Liverpool" or "check complete offside free kick Tottenham" no grey area. No doubts.
The statement realised by the club will hopefully start a serious debate on how the PGMOL is run and how VAR is implemented. How have 4 officials, on duty during that game on Saturday been allowed to go to Dubai and officiate a game played on Thursday. A game played and run by the owners of Manchester City. Who, as we all know lost to wolves the same afternoon. That causes some very serious questions to be asked?
Rob
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How long have we had VAR for now, at least 4 years? I didn't like it then (despite us having the first ever "VAR goal" in the PL) and I do not like it now. You could understand some mistakes and teething problems in the first couple of years as officials get used to the workings of VAR. But this far in, such major blunders as seen on Saturday are simply unacceptable.
Apparently the VAR, the assistant VAR and the fourth official from the Spurs vs. Liverpool game were all in the Middle East on Thursday refereeing a league game over there. That does not seem right to me either, you wonder if fatigue played a part?
I still hate how VAR looks for the tiniest of infringements to rule out what appears to be a perfectly good goal. One thing I am loving about the Championship so far this season is no VAR. When we score a goal, I can celebrate knowing full well that the goal will stand. I accept that there will likely be a few poor decisions that go against us as the season goes on, but that's football.
If VAR cannot get things right, and if they cannot make the process more clear and transparent for fans in the ground, then just get rid.
Apparently the VAR, the assistant VAR and the fourth official from the Spurs vs. Liverpool game were all in the Middle East on Thursday refereeing a league game over there. That does not seem right to me either, you wonder if fatigue played a part?
I still hate how VAR looks for the tiniest of infringements to rule out what appears to be a perfectly good goal. One thing I am loving about the Championship so far this season is no VAR. When we score a goal, I can celebrate knowing full well that the goal will stand. I accept that there will likely be a few poor decisions that go against us as the season goes on, but that's football.
If VAR cannot get things right, and if they cannot make the process more clear and transparent for fans in the ground, then just get rid.
Benzin
TS Member
Technology is only as good as those who use it.
Unfortunately for a VERY long time, the referees in the English leagues have been awful. Bad decisions have been constant (pre-VAR such offside decisions were plentiful) over the years and many teams have benefitted and lost put because of them.
Take the non-penalty given for Onana crashing into 2 Wolves players.
Darren England has also shown himself to be a terrible referee in other matches. Unfortunately it has taken a high profile mistake to get this going, which annoys me far more than anything.
VAR isn't the problem. It's poorly trained referees who are protected from their mistakes rather than punished.
In more positive side of things. Took the baby to her first match on Saturday, and she continued the family tradition of falling asleep right before Palace scored. Good day, if very typically Mancunian and wet.
Unfortunately for a VERY long time, the referees in the English leagues have been awful. Bad decisions have been constant (pre-VAR such offside decisions were plentiful) over the years and many teams have benefitted and lost put because of them.
Take the non-penalty given for Onana crashing into 2 Wolves players.
Darren England has also shown himself to be a terrible referee in other matches. Unfortunately it has taken a high profile mistake to get this going, which annoys me far more than anything.
VAR isn't the problem. It's poorly trained referees who are protected from their mistakes rather than punished.
In more positive side of things. Took the baby to her first match on Saturday, and she continued the family tradition of falling asleep right before Palace scored. Good day, if very typically Mancunian and wet.
Slugjc
TS Member
That's one question. There are other questions aswell. The biggest is why are English football match officials being payed by the UAE? A state that is very linked to 115 charged Manchester City
We can't scrap it now. Guarantee the week they scarp some club will have a perfectly good goal ruled out, or a pen given against that VAR would have least checked prior. That will lead to all sorts of legal ramifications.
It needs better implementation. I would take the running away from PGMOL and have an independent board review every official week in week out. As Mike Dean has stated only weeks ago, some protecting of mates going on.
Benzin
TS Member
As much as I do personally find it amusing that Liverpool find themselves on the wrong end on a bad decision (much like the other big clubs who have historically benefitted from some questionable decisions), jumping down the conspiracy train is not going to help public opinion.
Especially when the Spurs player in question has received the usual torrent of racist abuse as a result. Though that's a different situation entirely (and again, its sadly an almost standard response these days in both stadium and online for pretty much every team). Damages the argument somewhat into just general moaning and baseless accusations.
Slugjc
TS Member
I not pointing any conspiracy. I just think the question needs to be asked.
As normal, any decent discussion is wiped away because whataboutery starts. "Big clubs always get the decisions." Just adds nothing fella.
For too long supporters just accept what's going on. PGMOL washing it's hands of any poor decisions by realising statements that basically say "we are so, so sorry for our mistakes." Seemingly nothing happens. Just carry on, with the only punishment being taken off VAR for week. No real explanation as to what has gone on, or what has been go make sure similar mistakes don't happen game. For way too long now we have let referees get away with it. We never see any reports. Or no explanation as to why a decision was made. Just accept and roll over.
Zero consistency time and time again. It's ok, just roll over and accept nothing. Howard Webb should go. The FA and Pl should look into getting someone to watch over the PGMOL independently
Which player are you referring to?
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John_P
TS Member
Still can't believe that decision.
Genuinely can't believe the excuse they've given for why the goal wasn't given, all the VAR officials somehow didn't see the goal being disallowed immediately after Diaz scored. And the referee never spoke to them.
Don't think I've seen them 'check' a goal with a close offside decision so quickly either.
Genuinely can't believe the excuse they've given for why the goal wasn't given, all the VAR officials somehow didn't see the goal being disallowed immediately after Diaz scored. And the referee never spoke to them.
Don't think I've seen them 'check' a goal with a close offside decision so quickly either.
Rob
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That's the thing, it wasn't even a close offisde, Diaz was clearly onside. Which is probably why it all happened so quickly, the VARs incorrectly thought a goal had been given and could quickly see that it was onside, so from their point of view it was a quick and easy check complete. How on earth they missed that the goal had been disallowed on field is astonishing.
It almost certainly does not help that they are completely removed from the game in a room at Stockley Park. Obviously there are benefits of this as well, but you certainly lose game awareness from not being there. I find watching a Leicester game in person is a totally different experience to watching on TV, and it has to be the same for officiating.
Benzin
TS Member
Udogie, the one involved in the two Jota cards. But that tends to be the result of any player involved in the game now. Be it part of a poor decision, cheating or just people being awful.
The first one of those yellows was a bit iffy as well. Though seen some mention he'd been warned shortly beforehand.
The punishment for being crap used to be demotion to lower leagues. Which resulted in them continuing to be crap just in a different league. The thing that rankles me more is that it takes a massive decision to result in this, rather than the refs usually just being allowed to continue being crap for ages. Darren England especially has been a very poor ref in a sea of mediocrity.
Slugjc
TS Member
It's shocking if he has been abused. Completely out of order.
The Jota thing. The first yellow is not a yellow. The spurs lad trips himself up. It's clear. But, if you have a booking don't lunge in. Daft from Jota. But....... Udogie is seen brandishing a fake card. Whilst on a yellow himself. Are we now in situation. Like when a keeper gets booked for time wasting where, they will correctly book a player for this offensive, but you will never see them done with a second yellow.
As I say. Whataboutery gets you nowhere.
What does shoving them to the championship acheive. They know, I a few week they will be back in prem with a chip on the shoulder
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