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SeaWorld Orlando: General Discussion
Brad97
TS Member
There is plenty of investment in Williamsburg at the moment!
I adore BGW <3
There does seem to be more investment there recently. Hopefully Tampa gets similar treatment soon.
MakoMania
TS Member
Yes, the park as well as its employees and volunteers have been the subject of some quite disgraceful abuse over the past few years.It stands to reason that the park is having heavy investment after all the abuse over the past decade.
MakoMania
TS Member
Nice one.
Unfortunately for those who have invested their lives into caring for animals and have been the subject of abuse and death threats from extremist activists to do so, it's not so amusing.
I don't know what you know about animals, but as an AZA accredited facility, SeaWorld is "meeting or exceeding" the highest levels of animal care and welfare in the world. That's why the dedicated professionals at the park have earned partnerships with the World Wildlife Fund, Conservationist Dr Guy Harvey and the American Humane Association to name a few.
To suggest that SeaWorld's care standards are anything other than outstanding is simply false. There is a very long list of experts in marine science and veterinary science that will attest to that. Like at all accredited facilities, the staff are completely and utterly dedicated with their hearts and souls to these animals and will not settle for anything other than the best for them.
Personally, I look forward to returning to SeaWorld San Antonio this summer to play a small part in inspiring the next generation to love animals in a fragile world where good zoos and aquariums are playing an increasingly vital role.
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Matt N
TS Member
Um... I thought @Plastic Person meant that Koolade was some sort of themed soft drink that SeaWorld served, and that they had misspelt it...
Plastic Person
TS Member
I'm sure we've had this discussion before, but I find it difficult to debate with you @MakoMania , because you essentially communicate on this issue in press release copy, like some sort of Seaworld-bot. In another thread of yours covering another of Seaworld's declining regional parks, you stated that "I would argue that with a robust enrichment programme, social grouping and habitat design, life in an accredited zoo or aquarium can be just as fulfilling as in the wild."
Which, to me, even as someone who has worked at zoo attractions and sees the value in public conservation and education, reads as completely mental. As does your above post. I never said anything about the level or standard of care at Seaworld to encourage that kind of corporate spiel! Frankly, I don't know anything about it, and to be honest, all you know is what Seaworld choose to tell you.
I think they've done some great work in terms of animal rescue, but you'd never write anything as hyperbolic about a Merlin Sealife Centre, or any other attraction that exists to make profit as part of a huge corporate structure. They're in talks with Donald Trump's former PR manager to turn the franchise around! Donald Trump's PR manager!!! Does this strike you as an organisation dedicated to marine care out the goodness of their own hearts? They're desperate, and no amount of outreach or coastal work can disguise that the central attraction of the park is now largely percieved as inhumane. It's bad news for Seaworld, but ultimately, it's just an evolution of attitudes.
Nonetheless, although I think the public perception towards the park would have been transforming regardless of Blackfish, I don't agree with the more extremist tactics of pressure groups such as PETA. As such, I'm sorry that any public representative of Seaworld has been forced to endure any situation beyond their control...
All I'm saying is, looking at the figures: This is going to have be one hell of a rapids ride.
Which, to me, even as someone who has worked at zoo attractions and sees the value in public conservation and education, reads as completely mental. As does your above post. I never said anything about the level or standard of care at Seaworld to encourage that kind of corporate spiel! Frankly, I don't know anything about it, and to be honest, all you know is what Seaworld choose to tell you.
I think they've done some great work in terms of animal rescue, but you'd never write anything as hyperbolic about a Merlin Sealife Centre, or any other attraction that exists to make profit as part of a huge corporate structure. They're in talks with Donald Trump's former PR manager to turn the franchise around! Donald Trump's PR manager!!! Does this strike you as an organisation dedicated to marine care out the goodness of their own hearts? They're desperate, and no amount of outreach or coastal work can disguise that the central attraction of the park is now largely percieved as inhumane. It's bad news for Seaworld, but ultimately, it's just an evolution of attitudes.
Nonetheless, although I think the public perception towards the park would have been transforming regardless of Blackfish, I don't agree with the more extremist tactics of pressure groups such as PETA. As such, I'm sorry that any public representative of Seaworld has been forced to endure any situation beyond their control...
All I'm saying is, looking at the figures: This is going to have be one hell of a rapids ride.
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MakoMania
TS Member
Great picture of Tilly, I really miss him.
I appreciate that I can sound like a press release at times, but I can tell you categorically that I do not and have never recieved payment from SeaWorld.
The reason I defend SeaWorld so strongly is that I know the parks so well. I have friends who work with all kinds of animals at the parks and I can tell you that their passion is immense. They would die for the animals that they care for, this is no exaggeration. I have also personally spent weeks on end at the Florida and Texas locations, getting work experience and assisting in providing animal care.
SEA LIFE do great work as well, however not all of their facilities are accredited, which gives me no guarantee that their standards are up to such a high standard. I'm not saying that they do anything wrong, but I don't know for sure the other way either. I think I've said this before but I will not defend a facility if I do not know with absolute certainty that their care and processes meet the very best levels.
When I talk about SeaWorld's passion for conservation and animal care, I'm not so much talking about the corporate public company and the top executives, but about the dedicated professionals on the ground. Although having said that, the company does understand the need to provide excellent care and there is never any trouble getting the money from the top that is required to fund this or the rescue and rehabilitation efforts.
Do I care that the company are in talks with a campaign manager? No I do not, I don't really understand what weight it adds to this topic. If he can get the truth out about SeaWorld, then fantastic.
I stand by my statement that life in a high quality and professional zoo or aquarium can be just as rewarding as a life in the wild. It will of course be different, but different doesn't necessarily mean worse.
Lastly, I do not simply know what SeaWorld has told me. I have seen it with my own eyes, I have talked about it with my own friends, I have listened to the experts at independent organisations such as WWF and the AZA have said, and yes, I have also listened to what PETA have to say, and simply it just does not add up.
I often get asked why I always bring up PETA. The reason is, that for the most part, they are the only organisation that is criticising SeaWorld. Almost every single anti-SeaWorld media release can be traced back to them. For example, Blackfish is crawling with PETA associates, not to mention the so called " expert ex-trainers" who have never worked with Killer Whales for a single day in their lives. You cannot find a respected organisation that attacks SeaWorld.
I am in tears writing this. Not because of this debate, but because every day I dread reading the posts saying that we are mosters, we will go to hell, we have no hearts, we are animal abusers. It's not true, we care. I try to stop responding to the posts but I can't, it's such an impulsion to defend what you know is the truth. It's like a dagger going into my heart, it hurts, but honestly, I wouldn't change it for the world.
I've never really opened up about this before, maybe I'll regret it, but there we are.
I appreciate that I can sound like a press release at times, but I can tell you categorically that I do not and have never recieved payment from SeaWorld.
The reason I defend SeaWorld so strongly is that I know the parks so well. I have friends who work with all kinds of animals at the parks and I can tell you that their passion is immense. They would die for the animals that they care for, this is no exaggeration. I have also personally spent weeks on end at the Florida and Texas locations, getting work experience and assisting in providing animal care.
SEA LIFE do great work as well, however not all of their facilities are accredited, which gives me no guarantee that their standards are up to such a high standard. I'm not saying that they do anything wrong, but I don't know for sure the other way either. I think I've said this before but I will not defend a facility if I do not know with absolute certainty that their care and processes meet the very best levels.
When I talk about SeaWorld's passion for conservation and animal care, I'm not so much talking about the corporate public company and the top executives, but about the dedicated professionals on the ground. Although having said that, the company does understand the need to provide excellent care and there is never any trouble getting the money from the top that is required to fund this or the rescue and rehabilitation efforts.
Do I care that the company are in talks with a campaign manager? No I do not, I don't really understand what weight it adds to this topic. If he can get the truth out about SeaWorld, then fantastic.
I stand by my statement that life in a high quality and professional zoo or aquarium can be just as rewarding as a life in the wild. It will of course be different, but different doesn't necessarily mean worse.
Lastly, I do not simply know what SeaWorld has told me. I have seen it with my own eyes, I have talked about it with my own friends, I have listened to the experts at independent organisations such as WWF and the AZA have said, and yes, I have also listened to what PETA have to say, and simply it just does not add up.
I often get asked why I always bring up PETA. The reason is, that for the most part, they are the only organisation that is criticising SeaWorld. Almost every single anti-SeaWorld media release can be traced back to them. For example, Blackfish is crawling with PETA associates, not to mention the so called " expert ex-trainers" who have never worked with Killer Whales for a single day in their lives. You cannot find a respected organisation that attacks SeaWorld.
I am in tears writing this. Not because of this debate, but because every day I dread reading the posts saying that we are mosters, we will go to hell, we have no hearts, we are animal abusers. It's not true, we care. I try to stop responding to the posts but I can't, it's such an impulsion to defend what you know is the truth. It's like a dagger going into my heart, it hurts, but honestly, I wouldn't change it for the world.
I've never really opened up about this before, maybe I'll regret it, but there we are.
Plastic Person
TS Member
First of all, I apologise if I made you cry and that my post proved triggering. I'm not hoping to debate with you any longer, as obviously this company is a part of your identity and something you associate with strongly, and I feel I'd be better off hopping on the North West Football Forum and attempting to convince a few United fans to try the other red shirt for a weekend. I think your passion for animal care and the natural world is inspiring, but your very personal investment in Seaworld is misguided. I don't think that Seaworld's killer whales should be immediately released into the wild, or agree with anything PETA says on this issue, really, but to believe that life for an animal that large and intelligent, performing in captivity, could be as fulfilling as life in the wild... Well, it's an idea I can't support or get my head round at all. I think it stands in the way of natural progress, and I think Seaworld are going to have to employ some ruthless PR tactics and spin to fight against that tide at this point.
MakoMania
TS Member
The Orcas have great lives at SeaWorld. Shows are a tiny fraction of their day, there are different types of sessions that the trainers do with them to keep them mentally and physically stimulated as well as to maintain their health:
Husbandry: these are sessions that allow the staff to provide healthcare to the whales, this includes conditioning them to present their tale flukes for a voluntary blood draw, or keeping their mouth open without closing it so that dental care can be provided. The whales also participate in many research projects, one example of which is finding the carbon monoxide levels in the whales' lungs, and using this to establish the potential consequences of pollution on wild populations of Killer Whales.
Excercise: clearly the whales are not going to be swimming sufficient distances to keep them physically fit, so it's really important that they participate in lots of high energy behaviours such as breaches and rapid swims. The shows are also a part of this.
Shows: this is by far the smallest type of session, but on the flip side it's generally the only one that guests get to see. The whales cannot hear the loud music (something that is often criticised by those who think they can hear it), but they can see the audience and most of them (with a few exceptions) really seem to enjoy the attention. Often if you arrive before or stay after a show, you will see the whales come up to the glass and start interacting with the crowd, sometimes splashing them to see what the reaction is.
As I said, shows are also important for excercise. Every whale has their own specific excercise quota that is calculated every day.
Feeding: these are sessions when all that is done is giving the whales food. They won't be asked to do any behaviours, they will simply be fed. They get a wide range of different types of fish as well as squid, but their favourite usually seems to be salmon. They get quite excitable when they see it, as it isn't given to them all of the time for health reasons. The amount of food that a whale should recieve is calculated down to the calorie, dependent on age, gender and pregnancy status etc. All of the whales recieve all of their food every day, regardless of willingness to interact with the trainers. Food deprivation is extremely bad practice, and is not allowed in accredited facilities as it is inhumane and encourages agression. Unfortunately this is something that Tilikum was subject to for many years prior to his arrival at SeaWorld, but Blackfish conveniently forgets to mention that SeaWorld do not use this training method.
Play: the favourite session of pretty much everyone! This is where the whales are given a wide range of toys (EEDs in fancy talk) that they can throw around, try to sink and even ones where they have to use their intelligence to solve puzzles.
Learning: they love to learn new things, and the team are always coming up with new things for the whales to learn. It might be a new behaviour to include in a show, a behaviour required by researchers to gain data or even a behaviour that the vets request be trained to help them with diagnostics or treatment. A behaviour can take months or even years to train.
Relationship: these sessions are typically one on one time between a trainer and a whale, building mutual trust. There is no set structure to follow, the sessions may consist of playing together or even just calm time staring into each others eyes. Building a strong and positive relationship is vital, as without it or if the relationship starts to become negative, things can start to get dangerous.
This was just a simplified summary of what is done every day. When combined, these different sessions add up to provide a rewarding and stimulating environment for the whales, and we know that it works. Unhappy or depressed animals do not reproduce, SeaWorld had the most successful Killer Whale breeding programme in the world until it's end in March of 2016. Who knows if it may restart one day.
Husbandry: these are sessions that allow the staff to provide healthcare to the whales, this includes conditioning them to present their tale flukes for a voluntary blood draw, or keeping their mouth open without closing it so that dental care can be provided. The whales also participate in many research projects, one example of which is finding the carbon monoxide levels in the whales' lungs, and using this to establish the potential consequences of pollution on wild populations of Killer Whales.
Excercise: clearly the whales are not going to be swimming sufficient distances to keep them physically fit, so it's really important that they participate in lots of high energy behaviours such as breaches and rapid swims. The shows are also a part of this.
Shows: this is by far the smallest type of session, but on the flip side it's generally the only one that guests get to see. The whales cannot hear the loud music (something that is often criticised by those who think they can hear it), but they can see the audience and most of them (with a few exceptions) really seem to enjoy the attention. Often if you arrive before or stay after a show, you will see the whales come up to the glass and start interacting with the crowd, sometimes splashing them to see what the reaction is.
As I said, shows are also important for excercise. Every whale has their own specific excercise quota that is calculated every day.
Feeding: these are sessions when all that is done is giving the whales food. They won't be asked to do any behaviours, they will simply be fed. They get a wide range of different types of fish as well as squid, but their favourite usually seems to be salmon. They get quite excitable when they see it, as it isn't given to them all of the time for health reasons. The amount of food that a whale should recieve is calculated down to the calorie, dependent on age, gender and pregnancy status etc. All of the whales recieve all of their food every day, regardless of willingness to interact with the trainers. Food deprivation is extremely bad practice, and is not allowed in accredited facilities as it is inhumane and encourages agression. Unfortunately this is something that Tilikum was subject to for many years prior to his arrival at SeaWorld, but Blackfish conveniently forgets to mention that SeaWorld do not use this training method.
Play: the favourite session of pretty much everyone! This is where the whales are given a wide range of toys (EEDs in fancy talk) that they can throw around, try to sink and even ones where they have to use their intelligence to solve puzzles.
Learning: they love to learn new things, and the team are always coming up with new things for the whales to learn. It might be a new behaviour to include in a show, a behaviour required by researchers to gain data or even a behaviour that the vets request be trained to help them with diagnostics or treatment. A behaviour can take months or even years to train.
Relationship: these sessions are typically one on one time between a trainer and a whale, building mutual trust. There is no set structure to follow, the sessions may consist of playing together or even just calm time staring into each others eyes. Building a strong and positive relationship is vital, as without it or if the relationship starts to become negative, things can start to get dangerous.
This was just a simplified summary of what is done every day. When combined, these different sessions add up to provide a rewarding and stimulating environment for the whales, and we know that it works. Unhappy or depressed animals do not reproduce, SeaWorld had the most successful Killer Whale breeding programme in the world until it's end in March of 2016. Who knows if it may restart one day.
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Have you googled drink the kook aid yet then Matt.
Well worth reading up on.
Matt N
TS Member
Looks to be coming on nicely! When is it thought to be opening, Mako?
MakoMania
TS Member
This Summer
Realistically, I can't see it opening before July, but I honestly don't know anything more than you.
Matt N
TS Member
Thanks anyway @MakoMania!This Summer
Realistically, I can't see it opening before July, but I honestly don't know anything more than you.
MakoMania
TS Member
I understand that late June is now the aim, with late May being the original plan.
Apparently Aquatica Orlando set an attendance record for the month of February earlier this year as well. Ray Rush is coming along nicely and should open at some point in May.
Shamu Express train has been sent back to Zierer, new trains will be produced using some parts from the old ones.
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