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Secret Weapon 7 Discussion
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Rob
TS Team
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The plans may seem to fit when looking from above. However I wish anyone luck trying to show that they match when looking from ground level, as they just don't! If the plans were to be corrected then it would mean that some of the track would go straight through an already build concrete wall, now that's definitely not going to happen.
Dave
TS Founding Member
The other issue is if those pits are just for the run ins to the inversions then they have been massively over engineered. The run ins even considering theming potential could have been created without the sheer excavation and wall shoring that is happening here.
Also that overlay is not correctly sized.
Also that overlay is not correctly sized.
Tim
TS Member
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Inaccurate means the track will deviate from the course that is shown. Rough means that to the unobservant eye it'll look exactly the same but there will be minor differences. Look at Project Helix and the recent modifications for a good example of the difference between a rough plan (in this case POV) and the more recent ones.Dar said:
And no the footers don't have to be accurate because whoever came up with these plans was obviously pushing to a tight deadline and cutting corners or they wouldn’t have done a quick model in NoLimits but something more accurate like Saw's plans.
Here’s my theory of what happened:
During the design stage they created the track with NoLimits as an example for Gerstlauer to work from. This could even have been done by Wardley himself; he did something similar with Thirteen. No supports would have been added at this stage as this takes time, makes the model harder to edit and is only an extra for aesthetic purposes.
So they hand the model over to Gerstlauer, but then the folks in Merlin's planning department request something for them to show on the plans. This would have been done on a tight deadline so the planning application could go in ASAP. We also know they were behind schedule at this point as the design for the scenery had to be added later. So someone does a quick transfer of the files, adding supports as quick as they can. They make mistakes because they're in a rush (we know this from the intersecting supports), but it doesn’t matter as the model is only for completeness, hence why it says so in the plans.
That’s why I believe the track can be accurate even if the supports aren’t.
As for the other points yes there is a lot more excavation but I believe they are behind schedule. If they weren’t I’m sure track would have started going up immediately after the park closed. Wasn't it the first or second day of the 2009 closed season that Thirteen's Secret Weapon arrived to a fan fair of marketing? Plus someone on TTF has since been to the car parks and all the track seems to still be there. I can only conclude they weren’t purposefully delaying but still have work to do. Plus the lower end of the site probably needed excavating first for access reasons.
I was on park when these pictures were taken and while it is deep it isn’t ridiculously so. As I said in my original post it might not be track at the very bottom. Plus to put it in perspective the lower level around Oblivion’s pit is about the same depth. It’s made up of similar concrete slabs which can be seen on that picture.Rob said:
Sheer is probably an aesthetic choice to match Oblivion next door. And I did note it is not to scale.Dave said:
Rob
TS Team
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Tim said:
The depth of my hole isn't the point at all though. And I am certain that all of the hole will be underground as it screams cut and cover. Basically, on the plans, the section of track going into or out of (I'm not exactly certain which, or it could even be both) of the cobra roll is shown in a position whereby if it is built as per the plans it will collide with a concrete wall that has already been built.
Then there is the issue of the ground level shown on the plans, with the track following the line of the new ground level. The concrete slap walls that have been built prevent this new ground level on the plans from happening. See my diagram somewhere further back in this topic for proof!
Tim
TS Member
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You mean these pictures:
I always try and keep hold of posts that are worth remembering
Correct the wall is higher than ground level and what is shown on the plans. I was surprised as everyone else when those concrete walls started going up. But the general consensus at the moment seems to be that the plans are completely wrong because the inversion won't appear exactly as shown. This is not necessarily the case; the footprint still matches from above and those footers at the front look suspiciously like those for a cobra roll, suggesting that while the plans may be rough they don’t have to be inaccurate.
It all comes back to my theory of how the ride was designed; those plans would likely have been made by a designer at Merlin. Since then the design has been handed over to Gerstlauer who would have made their own changes based on proper calculations. These changes could include raising the height of the inversion so that something else can fit underneath (cut and cover as you suggested) or tightening some of the elements so that the trains dive into the pit rather than the more gradual slope shown.
Again I point to Project Helix as a perfect example of this. On the initial POV made by the park you can see several points where the ride collids with Lisebergbanan and their flume ride. But in the newer POV’s presumably made with Mack’s guidance elements have been tweaked (in one case creating an entirely new inversion) to make sure the clearance is correct.
As I said I’m only 60% certain on this theory but that still leads me to believe it’s more likely to be the case than not.
I always try and keep hold of posts that are worth remembering
Correct the wall is higher than ground level and what is shown on the plans. I was surprised as everyone else when those concrete walls started going up. But the general consensus at the moment seems to be that the plans are completely wrong because the inversion won't appear exactly as shown. This is not necessarily the case; the footprint still matches from above and those footers at the front look suspiciously like those for a cobra roll, suggesting that while the plans may be rough they don’t have to be inaccurate.
It all comes back to my theory of how the ride was designed; those plans would likely have been made by a designer at Merlin. Since then the design has been handed over to Gerstlauer who would have made their own changes based on proper calculations. These changes could include raising the height of the inversion so that something else can fit underneath (cut and cover as you suggested) or tightening some of the elements so that the trains dive into the pit rather than the more gradual slope shown.
Again I point to Project Helix as a perfect example of this. On the initial POV made by the park you can see several points where the ride collids with Lisebergbanan and their flume ride. But in the newer POV’s presumably made with Mack’s guidance elements have been tweaked (in one case creating an entirely new inversion) to make sure the clearance is correct.
As I said I’m only 60% certain on this theory but that still leads me to believe it’s more likely to be the case than not.
Dave
TS Founding Member
I think the key here is if you look at the original plans you see the method a park would use to dig into the ground for a run into an inversion, gradual ramp down then up. It requires no shoring and is very stable. There are exceptions to the rules such as to accommodate a theming style (ie Under Colossus's Cobra Roll pool).
The other side of this is of the plans we know I think the high points and the interlocking cobras will appear, but I also think its 80% certain the rest of the plans are wrong, 95% certain there will be more underground track and 99% certain the washing machine trick track will not appear.
I think we will see some of the plans come to life but a lot will be different.
The other side of this is of the plans we know I think the high points and the interlocking cobras will appear, but I also think its 80% certain the rest of the plans are wrong, 95% certain there will be more underground track and 99% certain the washing machine trick track will not appear.
I think we will see some of the plans come to life but a lot will be different.
EuroSatch
TS Member
The key giveaway is the plans show a path through to the central plaza, all of which is ground level. However it's a bit difficult to walk along this path if current construction is to go by, as you will reach a solid concrete wall either side, and be reminded you are at the bottom of a huge pit.
The entire excavated area underneath the cobra wall is not shown in the plans. Unless there is a lot going on underground in the same area, in a cut and cover job. But that would mean the above ground track is then higher than shown in the plans.
I'm wondering whether the station building extends a lot further out than was shown on the plans, but is not at a height that would require planning permission
The entire excavated area underneath the cobra wall is not shown in the plans. Unless there is a lot going on underground in the same area, in a cut and cover job. But that would mean the above ground track is then higher than shown in the plans.
I'm wondering whether the station building extends a lot further out than was shown on the plans, but is not at a height that would require planning permission
Rob
TS Team
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Right, better late than never, here are a selection of my photos from 31st October and 3rd + 4th November. WARNING, PICTURE HEAVY!!
Wednesday 31st October
We start with track:
Awesome supports!
A Gerstlauer office had appeared on site:
Part of the hole was flooded again last week:
A big mess of re-bars:
Saturday 3rd November
New track:
A look from the top of the site:
You can see how massive the apparent cut and cover area is:
Digging taking place further up the site:
Here you can see how concrete has been poured on 3 different levels:
A nice overview shot:
Sunday 4th November
Track in car park J:
Track in one of the fields:
A look towards where the station will likely be:
Another look at the different levels of the underground section:
There we have it! I would say my last construction update but all being well it won't be!
Once again, all photos were taken from areas of the park accessible to the public. Please do no use these photos elsewhere. TowersStreet may use them if they wish.
Wednesday 31st October
We start with track:
Awesome supports!
A Gerstlauer office had appeared on site:
Part of the hole was flooded again last week:
A big mess of re-bars:
Saturday 3rd November
New track:
A look from the top of the site:
You can see how massive the apparent cut and cover area is:
Digging taking place further up the site:
Here you can see how concrete has been poured on 3 different levels:
A nice overview shot:
Sunday 4th November
Track in car park J:
Track in one of the fields:
A look towards where the station will likely be:
Another look at the different levels of the underground section:
There we have it! I would say my last construction update but all being well it won't be!
Once again, all photos were taken from areas of the park accessible to the public. Please do no use these photos elsewhere. TowersStreet may use them if they wish.
D
Deleted member 583
I don't know without looking but I'm sure the supports around the block of toilets looked like that.
I had a dream all about SW7 last night.. I can't remember much, but it had a very dark, eery and uncomfortable feel inside, with a live queue line, actors walking around telling you it'd be fine, and to stay safe. They wore white lab coats, black jeans and goggles. The queue it's self was indoors, very confined and cramped, with metal cages Eather side, where the actor would be. Every so often, the lights would go out, and you'd hear "not too long now!" or " You'll have a better life after this"
The lights themselves were like hanging, dim lightbulb.
You then got taken in groups of 10 into a small room with faded bright yellow walls, a red arm chair and a dead sunflower. You were told by another doctor/scientist person who told you how it was going to be fine, a simple process, that will be over in a few minutes. He said after you'd be better people, and have a better life. Then, another doctor runs in, screaming that's he's lying, and that it's not ok, and this is the last few minutes of our lives. The lights go out, and your sprayed water, and forced to run out. You then stay in another queue, for 10 minutes which has lots more actors in the cages, screaming that you have to get out now.
Then you enter the ride and my dream ended (urghhh!!)
So yeh, it was a pretty awesome dream!
The lights themselves were like hanging, dim lightbulb.
You then got taken in groups of 10 into a small room with faded bright yellow walls, a red arm chair and a dead sunflower. You were told by another doctor/scientist person who told you how it was going to be fine, a simple process, that will be over in a few minutes. He said after you'd be better people, and have a better life. Then, another doctor runs in, screaming that's he's lying, and that it's not ok, and this is the last few minutes of our lives. The lights go out, and your sprayed water, and forced to run out. You then stay in another queue, for 10 minutes which has lots more actors in the cages, screaming that you have to get out now.
Then you enter the ride and my dream ended (urghhh!!)
So yeh, it was a pretty awesome dream!
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