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Secret Weapon 7 Discussion

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Do Look Down. That's hilarious.

Hilariously cheesy.

Really, you would think AT would be way beyond sinking that low.

I'm pretty sure the trains won't be that B&M style, but the trains themselves may be arranged that way. There could also be a new zero cart, because I doubt that they'll be able two cars attached like that.

Also, the problem is it'll look absolutely ridiculous. The cars will be massive compared to the track.
 
Nick said:
Do Look Down. That's hilarious.

Hilariously cheesy.

Really, you would think AT would be way beyond sinking that low.

I'm pretty sure the trains won't be that B&M style, but the trains themselves may be arranged that way. There could also be a new zero cart, because I doubt that they'll be able two cars attached like that.

Also, the problem is it'll look absolutely ridiculous. The cars will be massive compared to the track.

Personally, "Do Look Down" is exactly the kind of thing I could see Alton Towers running with, purely because Don't Look Down is so synonymous with the coaster next door. On one level, it would tie the area nicely together as a backwards government run correctional facility. The other level, I suppose, could be interpreted as a lack of imagination. We'll never be happy :(

Its only coster-geek fan fiction though. Still skeptical about this being the trick section, if there is one at all.
 
Nick said:
Do Look Down. That's hilarious.

Hilariously cheesy.

Really, you would think AT would be way beyond sinking that low.

I'm pretty sure the trains won't be that B&M style, but the trains themselves may be arranged that way. There could also be a new zero cart, because I doubt that they'll be able two cars attached like that.

Also, the problem is it'll look absolutely ridiculous. The cars will be massive compared to the track.

What the heck is a zero cart? And I don't think the trains being larger than the track is necessarily a bad thing - it could look impressive if they were designed and themed well enough.
 
A zero car is a set of axis at the front or back of a train with no seats, used to stabilise the train. See Aplengheist for example.
 
j1929g4gpo6vb000htlo5k.jpg


Like this. Just the thing on the front of the car.

I could imagine it being something like on Oblivion (like the concept images).
 
I really like the concept imagery, but one thing that irks me is how fast will you do the secret element? Will it be collosus fast, or slow kinda trummel tunnel what's happening pace?
 
Nick said:
j1929g4gpo6vb000htlo5k.jpg


Like this. Just the thing on the front of the car.

I could imagine it being something like on Oblivion (like the concept images).

That's not a Zero Cart; it is just the nose of the front carriage. Blaze’s definition is a fairly good one. It's a carriage at the front of a train that is used just to balance the vehicle and so doesn’t contain any seats. Alpengeist is the best example as it is the only B&M Inverted coaster to include one which makes it stand out. Here's an image:

6svg0094ij8f73k038608l.jpg


As you can see the front cart has no people on it which is why it's called a "Zero" cart.

Normally though a Zero Cart is more common on rides that have two rows of seats per cart. This is because the wheels tend to be positioned at the back of each vehicle which means the front cart needs an extra set of wheels or it would fall over. The solution is to build an extra half a cart in front which is only big enough to contain a set of wheels. See this model of Blue Fire for a good example:

2piibl6gue7a7n487uk001.jpg
 
Zero cars are found on B&M sitters as well. They basically are a separate car and form part of a train. However there's no seats which is why it's a called a "Zero car"

Look closely at this photo of Wildfire at Silver Dollar City and you can see the first car has separate wheels from the front row car

jms6tdiham0b8000cn6oft.jpg


Normally zero cars are used for themeing purposes (like on Alpengeist)

:)
 
I believed that the zero car was used for aesthetic purposes only. That's clearly wrong!

Still, I still think the Eurofighter's front is still a sort of zero car anyway. I define it as something that changes the front car from the other ones. On B&M's this is probably false, but with other manufactures it could be true. I guess that isn't the true meaning of "zero car" though.
 
delta79 said:
Ok, I have leant the coaster term for what I called a guild dolly.
It has lots of names. I just call it that as it makes the most sense when designing rides for RCT3. A Zero Cart is the one at the front but with no people in.

Nick said:
I believed that the zero car was used for aesthetic purposes only. That's clearly wrong!

Still, I still think the Eurofighter's front is still a sort of zero car anyway. I define it as something that changes the front car from the other ones. On B&M's this is probably false, but with other manufactures it could be true. I guess that isn't the true meaning of "zero car" though.
Well the odd thing about a Euro-Fighter is that technically it isn't even a train. It has more in common with a Wild Mouse than it does a standard train. Let me try and find explain it visually...

Have you ever been on a Wild Mouse and watched the wheels as it goes around a corner? If you have you'll have noticed something quite clever that allows it to take impossibly sharp turns. Let’s say you're looking at the front wheels and take a sharp corner to the left. These front wheels are on a pivot so that as they hit the curve the left wheel moves backwards so that it is closer to you and as a result pushes the right wheel further away. The same happens on the back set of wheels but in reverse so that the wheels on the left are almost touching while the ones on the right are as far away as possible.

You can just about see this on the below image of Matterhorn Blitz:

nh5kq3pot03sqg7is006cs.jpg


See what I mean? (just nod and go along with me if you don’t ;) )

No other ride type turns like this... except for the Euro-Fighters. Unfortunately finding a picture of a Euro-Fighter performing a turn like this is even harder as the motion is so slight you’d barely notice it. But next time you're watching Saw notice that when the train comes into the final break run it makes a very quick snapping motion. This is the wheels coming back together.

So what does this mean? Basically it means the Euro-Fighter acts as a single cart vehicle. But quite clearly it isn’t because the front and back carriages are separated:

849pg009qij8f73l29so3g.jpg


Well they are but yet again they're not. This is the second thing that sets Euro-Fighters apart and makes them such a dynamic little ride. The gap in-between each row of seats only allows for one type of motion; rolling motion from left to right. In a way Nick is right in calling the front seat a Zero Cart because this is the same way many Zero-Carts are joined to make the ride stable. Only as I explained before calling it a Zero Cart isn’t the right word because it actually has people in it.

That’s why I find it easier to think of a Euro-Fighter as a Wild Mouse that has been cut in half.

This is also the reason that sticking two Euro-Fighters together simply won't work. You'd end up with two very dynamic carts joined like a normal roller coaster which would restrict a lot of the movement. Exactly how they are going to get around this I look forward to finding out.

I hope that’s made things a bit clearer. But, probably not :-\
 
So, if I've interpreted your post correctly, Tim. A completely new design is in order for these trains (for SW7). As the current design is created just like that, it's not a matter of putting two Euro-Fighters together, as the design would not work. So for SW7 the trains will involve some new engineering of some sorts. If that's the case it will certainly be interesting to see the new trains and how they work in comparison to the current 'classic' style Euro-Fighter trains.

Great post mind, Tim. I've learnt more about Euro-Fighters and Wild Mouses on this page than I have done all my life. Very insightful stuff for someone like me that hasn't normally got a clue how these things work. I never knew Wild Mouses did that to get around corners (I though some scary magic did it!) and it's interesting to see how the Euro-Fighter trains use the same basis (but in a more complex and cleverly designed way) to do the same thing. Certainly puts Euro-Fighters ahead of the game with having the flexibility to have some interesting and sharp elements.

Lets just hope SW7 will be a smooth ride!
 
Either a new design or a way to supper size the current design. But I don't want to speculate any further (at least not yet) because anything else would be guessing.
 
There are rumours that a delivery will take place at some point today, although I'm not getting my hopes up too much. :)
 
Track is expected imminently, though as of an hour or so ago it had not arrived.

:)
 
Don't get your hopes up too high, we know preparations began today to receive the track but the exact delivery time is unknown.
 
I'm pretty certain track has never been delivered; John Wardley simply hand-sews a track out of pure steel. :p
 
BigAl said:
I'm pretty certain track has never been delivered; John Wardley simply hand-sews a track out of pure steel. :p

He has a steel gland in each of his arms which can be heated to molten levels and which therefore allow him to craft the perfect "NoLimits" smoothness ;)
 
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