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Tennis Discussion

Murray through easily in straight sets against Davydenko - almost too easy! Looked better than Rafa today, a good omen especially as Davydenko was a former world no. 3. :)
 
Laura Robson would get a good goosing. :D

In other news, Andy Murray is 'British' today, and it looks like the reign of the Williams sisters is coming to an end.
 
Murray did brilliantly. Also great to see Baltacha and Ward through to the 2nd round too. Young Watson was unlucky earlier today but showed great promise for future years!

Interesting British action at the moment comes from Anne Keothavong (who is close to winning her match) and Jamie Baker who is currently in action on Court No.1 - he held Roddick to a first set tiebreak but unfortunately lost that set. Both are on BBC Red Button!
 
I'm talking about the public in general with this, but:

Andy Murray is absolute garbage, I don't know what it is with people that makes them ignore the fact that Europeans are better than the British at most sports.

There's getting behind your country and plain stupidity/ignorance and a refusal to admit it when we just aren't good enough.

That that I feel any attachment to Murray and can we get some consistency in what we compete at as a nation? England or Britain - I wouldn't mind either way if only it were consistent!
 
Tom said:
I'm talking about the public in general with this, but:

Andy Murray is absolute garbage, I don't know what it is with people that makes them ignore the fact that Europeans are better than the British at most sports.
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I would not call a player who has been within the top 4 for years and has peaked at #2, as well as reaching the final of 2 grand slams and the semis of the other 2, 'garbage'

He is unfortunate that tennis has 3 incredible talents at the top of the game. However, he has beaten all of them on more than one occasion. He is not garbage.

can we get some consistency in what we compete at as a nation? England or Britain - I wouldn't mind either way if only it were consistent!
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I think this stems down to a difference in terms of team sports and individuals. In events where individuals compete we tend to use GB. In team sports we tend to use the separate nations...
 
mrbrightside said:
Tom said:
I'm talking about the public in general with this, but:

Andy Murray is absolute garbage, I don't know what it is with people that makes them ignore the fact that Europeans are better than the British at most sports.
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I would not call a player who has been within the top 4 for years and has peaked at #2, as well as reaching the final of 2 grand slams and the semis of the other 2, 'garbage'

He is unfortunate that tennis has 3 incredible talents at the top of the game. However, he has beaten all of them on more than one occasion. He is not garbage.

can we get some consistency in what we compete at as a nation? England or Britain - I wouldn't mind either way if only it were consistent!
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I think this stems down to a difference in terms of team sports and individuals. In events where individuals compete we tend to use GB. In team sports we tend to use the separate nations...
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He has never won a grand slam, and world rankings are not an accurate reflection of ability in my view. The number two ranking for was like two weeks so isn't even worth mentioning even if you do support the ranking system. He is not excelled in his sport and will not be remembered as being among the greats. He'll just be looked back on and laughed at like Tim Henman is now. When you watch Nadal etc and realise just how bad Henman actually was, it is genuinely hard not to laugh.

As for your second point, I'm afraid it isn't even that consistent. We have Great Britain at the Olympics and England at the Commonwealth Games. Then there's golfers and snooker players, who are recognised as English/Scottish/etc.
 
Whilst world rankings may not seem accurate to you, for someone to be in the top 4 in the world consistantly shows that he has talent. He is not as consistent as the other 3 though, as has been shown in the Slams... However, the fact he has beaten all of those other players on more than one occasion shows that he is definitely good enough to win a Slam in terms of his ability. He may not go down in history like the top 3, but he is a damn sight better than you seem to rate him as.

Fair point in regards to nationalities though... However, I think that in anything (bar football, rugby, and maybe the Commonwealth's) nationality doesn't come into it and the person is generally regarded as 'British'.
 
mrbrightside said:
Whilst world rankings may not seem accurate to you, for someone to be in the top 4 in the world consistantly shows that he has talent. He is not as consistent as the other 3 though, as has been shown in the Slams... However, the fact he has beaten all of those other players on more than one occasion shows that he is definitely good enough to win a Slam in terms of his ability. He may not go down in history like the top 3, but he is a damn sight better than you seem to rate him as.

Fair point in regards to nationalities though... However, I think that in anything (bar football, rugby, and maybe the Commonwealth's) nationality doesn't come into it and the person is generally regarded as 'British'.
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He hasn't won a grand slam, never excelled in his sport, it's as simple as that. If he goes on to win some then maybe he will get more respect from me, but I consider him doing that (certainly more than one) to be unlikely. He just can't cut a tournament in its entirety - that's the difference. He's 25 and any great would likely have had a couple of grand slams under their belt by now. But he's a damn sight better than Henman, I'll give you that.

There's no consistency with the British/English thing - one or another is not too much to ask in the 21st century.
 
Andy Murray is our best tennis hope for years. Sure, he may not have won any Grand Slam titles yet, but there is still the possibility that he may still do so. It may happen, it may not happen, but I don't think it's fair to say that he won't be considered a 'great' player on the basis that he hasn't won any Grand Slam titles. One example I'd like to bring up, albeit from a different sport, is that of Sir Stirling Moss. He was a famous Formula 1 driver back in the 1950s and 1960s who won 16 races from 67 starts, yet never won the World Championship, and is considered by many to be the greatest driver to never win the World Championship.

Back on the tennis point, Scott's right to say that because Murray's been in the top 4 of the world rankings for quite a while shows that he does have an awful lot of talent.
 
@Tom:
To get to the top 4 in the world and reach finals of the major tournaments is good enough to 'excel' for me. I cannot see how you can't rate his ability... Yes, he can't seem to cut it in the final (although he can beat the other players in smaller situations) but I think the fact that he is consistently good enough to at least reach Semi-Finals or Finals on a regular occurrence is a good enough measure of 'excelling' in his sport. Not the ultimate aim, but definitely not 'garbage' as you originally described him!

Back onto nationalities... I think sports are too set in their ways to change. Look at the panic and worry surrounding the GB Football team for the Olympics. Scotland, Wales and NI were terrified that FIFA would make it supercede the original nations.
 
mrbrightside said:
@Tom:
To get to the top 4 in the world and reach finals of the major tournaments is good enough to 'excel' for me. I cannot see how you can't rate his ability... Yes, he can't seem to cut it in the final (although he can beat the other players in smaller situations) but I think the fact that he is consistently good enough to at least reach Semi-Finals or Finals on a regular occurrence is a good enough measure of 'excelling' in his sport. Not the ultimate aim, but definitely not 'garbage' as you originally described him!

Back onto nationalities... I think sports are too set in their ways to change. Look at the panic and worry surrounding the GB Football team for the Olympics. Scotland, Wales and NI were terrified that FIFA would make it supercede the original nations.
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He's garbage compared to the obvious others in my view. There's nothing really left to argue, I don't think he's anything special in world terms, you perhaps do.

Ultimately, I refuse to get behind who I see to be sub-standard sports people/teams with little prospect at major tournaments simply because they are British/English. I just like people that have reached the top of their game by winning championships and I always have regardless who where they come from. Again, nothing against anyone here specifically but there are often shades of fascism/racism behind people's 'passion' for their nation at sport - but that is largely confined to football.

And I'll certainly agree with you on the sports being short-sighted.
 
He's garbage compared to the obvious others in my view. There's nothing really left to argue, I don't think he's anything special in world terms, you perhaps do.

Ultimately, I refuse to get behind who I see to be sub-standard sports people/teams with little prospect at major tournaments simply because they are British/English. I just like people that have reached the top of their game by winning championships and I always have regardless who where they come from. Again, nothing against anyone here specifically but there are often shades of fascism/racism behind people's 'passion' for their nation at sport - but that is largely confined to football.

And I'll certainly agree with you on the sports being short-sighted.
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He is better than any other tennis player in the world bar 3 right now and those three players are arguably the best the world has ever seen. As others have said, he has beaten all of them before more than once. No one says you have to support him because of his nationality but to write off his achievements as garbage is ridiculous.

I think that people in general are far too negative towards sports professionals and really have no place putting them down and treating them with such disrespect. It's easy to be the armchair expert but I firmly believe that being in the top 100 of anything in the world is a massive achievement. These people should be applauded not hated for their success and popularity.
 
Let's not forget also that his coach Ivan Lendl lost 4 grand slam finals before winning his - a very similar situation to Murray's. It's not impossible for him to do it - Djokovic broke through out of nowhere in 2008 and he is the same age as Andy, it's not like there isn't time left. Federer will gradually fade and bow out, leaving just Nadal and Djokovic, who will one on occasion be beaten - even by sheer attrition of attempts. It will happen.
 
As I say, I'm not arguing the point any longer because it comes down to opinions at the end of the day.

So moving on, I sympathise with tennis players because the peka age of the sport is pretty low compared to the majority of other sports. I guess this is down to the contant changes of direction and agility being so vital in the sport. The knees take a lot of stress as well.

You can see in the decline of Federer that he continues to veer off more and more each year.
 
I personally don't think he's got it in him either. I'd say I hope he proves me wrong, but I actually can't whip up any enthusiasm for the guy at all, so if he does prove me wrong I'll probably shrug and say "well there you are then".
 
Great result this morning for Guernsey's Heather Watson - she's the first British woman to make the 3rd round in 10 years. Her next opponent is likely to be the #3 seed so I can't see her going any further, but an impressive result regardless.

As for Murray, I always consider him to be a contender, but still some way behind the top 3. It'd take a brave (or foolish) person to bet against one of Federer, Nadal or Djokovic winning.
 
Murray pulled through today to reach Round 3, and if I'm not mistaken will be facing the tricky opponent of Marcus Baghdatis... Another Brit, James Ward was incredibly unlucky today against Mardy Fish. The match went the distance but unfortunately Ward lost in the end. Incredible game considering Ward is #173 in the world and Fish is #12!

Even more amazing is what is currently going on between Nadal and the world #100 on Centre Court. Nadal is 2-1 down and looking shaky. He only got the first set through a tiebreak, and that was won 11-9. Very close.
 
Murray played well today, and it was a pretty exciting match too. Breaking each other's serve in the first two games - astonishing!

Karlovic has an amazing serve though, his second serve is better than most player's first!
 
Nadal has had a few scares in early rounds at Wimbledon in the past. I can think of a couple of occasions where his 1st-3rd round matches going to 5 sets against lowly-ranked opposition.

Nadal's up a break in the 4th now and I fully expect him to come through.
 
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