The Alton Towers Dungeon

[s_g_k]

The thing with timeless IPs is that they tend to be all owned by Disney these days, which leaves the rest of the parks using “craze based” IPs which only last a few years. When the remake of the Charlie and The Chocolate Factory film came out, it was pretty popular but the popularity was short lived, and AT went down the route of theming it purely based on the new film. Perhaps if it had a more classic look like the original, it would have aged better?

TWoDW screams of a panic, short term solution to an area that was dying a death. I’m not sure if it was on this thread, but someone mentioned that bringing back the Port Discovery theme to this area would’ve been a far better idea and I couldn’t agree more. Done properly, it could have been the best new themed area for decades and could incorporate the dungeons, the 4D cinema and hey, maybe even a family-thrill indoor coaster.

Do AT really think that the general public have such low imagination levels that they can only identify with TV programmes?

 

[Plastic Person]

The thing with timeless IPs is that they tend to be all owned by Disney these days, which leaves the rest of the parks using “craze based” IPs which only last a few years. When the remake of the Charlie and The Chocolate Factory film came out, it was pretty popular but the popularity was short lived, and AT went down the route of theming it purely based on the new film. Perhaps if it had a more classic look like the original, it would have aged better?

The CATCF adaptation at Alton Towers was licensed to be based on the books, as illustrated by Quentin Blake, rather than Tim Burton's film, which actually opened in cinemas several months after the ride. It had nothing in common with Burton's interpretation, although it didn't really seem to have much in common with the classic version of the film or literature, either. A total missed opportunity, in my opinion.

I don't think the public don't appreciate non-IPs; if the brand is strong enough, it'll work, even if it's something plucked out of thin air. But we now live in a much more stacked, synergy-driven corporate world, in which multi-platforms and 'cinematic universes' are the norm. Even EP and Efteling, who have wisely curated their own stable of characters over the years, are moving them into wider media. In an alternative universe, Alton could be marketing themselves with an 'Adventures of Henry Hound' streaming series, but it just didn't pan out that way, so now they need other opportunities to hook people into visiting, families especially.

 

[Trooper Looper]

Do AT really think that the general public have such low imagination levels that they can only identify with TV programmes?

Its not ATs fault, the idea of TWODW more likely came from by Merlin themselves. Many of the staff there, such as ride ops, designers, engineers, maintenance team, etc have been there since the 90s and early 2000s, so I doubt that they'd just suddenly become very corporate within the last 10 years.

Alton Towers has been at its lowest its ever been because of Merlin and the consistent overuse of IPs and limited creativity.

As Matt has said, yes, an IP could work, but very few of them are actually timeless and most age like milk, that's the harsh reality of it unfortunately

Heck, even SW8 is an IP, but a very clever one since not many people know what The Wicker Man in nowerdays, so it'll be seen as an original idea, but over time the film may get more popular because of the ride, then the whole concept of SW8 will quickly become lackluster and predictable.

 

[Matt N]

Heck, even SW8 is an IP, but a very clever one since not many people know what The Wicker Man in nowerdays, so it'll be seen as an original idea, but over time the film may get more popular because of the ride, then the whole concept of SW8 will quickly become lackluster and predictable.

Interestingly, Wicker Man isn’t actually IP-based at all. Even though it draws on the same types of legends and folklore as used in the Wicker Man films, it isn’t actually based on or themed around either of them, instead being an original story concocted by Merlin Magic Making.

Rightly or wrongly, I think IP-based entertainment is the way that theme parks in general are headed, not just the Merlin portfolio, and as much as many of you probably hate them saying this, I agree with Merlin when they say that it’s “the future”. As much as originally-themed attractions aren’t dying out by any stretch, I think IPs are becoming more popular for sure, and in the case of attractions such as dark rides, which don’t have an initial hardware hook like coasters and flat rides do, I think we’re now at a point where that type of attraction is quite difficult to sell to people without an IP.

 

[jon81uk]

When the remake of the Charlie and The Chocolate Factory film came out, it was pretty popular but the popularity was short lived, and AT went down the route of theming it purely based on the new film. Perhaps if it had a more classic look like the original, it would have aged better?

The CATCF adaptation at Alton Towers was licensed to be based on the books, as illustrated by Quentin Blake, rather than Tim Burton's film, which actually opened in cinemas several months after the ride. It had nothing in common with Burton's interpretation, although it didn't really seem to have much in common with the classic version of the film or literature, either. A total missed opportunity, in my opinion

Charlie and the Chocolate Factory is a book from 1964 so should be as timeless as much of Disney's stuff based on old books.
However as @Plastic Person raised, the Alton Towers ride took good inspiration from Quentin Blake's illustrations but just used them poorly. The ride was 80% there, but just looked and felt a bit empty and lifeless.

 

[QTXAdsy]

TWoDW screams of a panic, short term solution to an area that was dying a death. I’m not sure if it was on this thread, but someone mentioned that bringing back the Port Discovery theme to this area would’ve been a far better idea and I couldn’t agree more. Done properly, it could have been the best new themed area for decades and could incorporate the dungeons, the 4D cinema and hey, maybe even a family-thrill indoor coaster.

I believe I was the one who suggested it on here and I'm glad to see many seem to really love the idea.

But on the topic of TWODW, I'm just not a fan of IP areas unless there are some certain exceptions on how well they are done; TWODW is not this.

TBH, after how poor CatCF was, the failure to get a hold of the Shrek 4D show, the basic slap of paint added for Spinball under it's Sonic look and now the 'meh' nature of TWODW, I'm starting to suspect Merlin are getting cold feet on anyone IP additions in the future.

With the cost of getting the rights of an IP costing the same amount to give a ride a good theming job, you'd have to wonder why they'd even bother. Then again even if they didn't have to spend money on getting the rights and could use the money to give the rest of the area a good theming job, I doubt Merlin would have made the area any better than what it is now.

But all together now...Bring forward the Port Discovery concept to live!

 

[Trooper Looper]

I believe I was the one who suggested it on here and I'm glad to see many seem to really love the idea.

But on the topic of TWODW, I'm just not a fan of IP areas unless there are some certain exceptions on how well they are done; TWODW is not this.

TBH, after how poor CatCF was, the failure to get a hold of the Shrek 4D show, the basic slap of paint added for Spinball under it's Sonic look and now the 'meh' nature of TWODW, I'm starting to suspect Merlin are getting cold feet on anyone IP additions in the future.

With the cost of getting the rights of an IP costing the same amount to give a ride a good theming job, you'd have to wonder why they'd even bother. Then again even if they didn't have to spend money on getting the rights and could use the money to give the rest of the area a good theming job, I doubt Merlin would have made the area any better than what it is now.

But all together now...Bring forward the Port Discovery concept to live!

#bringportdiscoverytolife
#bringbackaroundtheworldin80days

 

[jon81uk]

TBH, after how poor CatCF was, the failure to get a hold of the Shrek 4D show, the basic slap of paint added for Spinball under it's Sonic look and now the 'meh' nature of TWODW, I'm starting to suspect Merlin are getting cold feet on anyone IP additions in the future

Merlin have added Angry Bird, Gruffalo, Room on the Broom, Gangsta Granny and now Peter Rabbit at Blackpool.
They are not stopping licensing IPs.

Sonic Spinball was meant to be exactly what it turned out to be, a light retouch of Spinball. For what it was its actually one of the better IP rethemes I think, it didn't do anything more or less than it was meant to.

Merlin also think Gangsta Granny is a success, they don't see it as "meh" at all.

 

[Matt.GC]

Nobody does IP's like Disney who are the theme park leaders. There's nothing wrong with an IP as long as it's a good one and isn't just used as an excuse to tart up an old ride a little bit.

I'd usually default to the original as when you come up with your own ideas you make them timeless.

I actually think Donaldson and Walliams books are pretty long term decent IP's (as opposed to something like the Walking Dead). In fact, I don't think Towers have any IP's now that are going to date badly over the next few years. The answer to the problem of the Dungeons has been staring the park on the face the whole time! It's within an area that already has an IP attached. All they have to do is refit it to Walliams books and pull down that stupid fence that isn't fooling anyone and it's job done.

 

[QTXAdsy]

In an alternative universe, Alton could be marketing themselves with an 'Adventures of Henry Hound' streaming series, but it just didn't pan out that way, so now they need other opportunities to hook people into visiting, families especially.

Funnily enough I have a story about taking the Alton brand to new heights. What some of you don't know about me is that I have been writing up comic scripts for my artist friend who is pretty much going places, buy anyway back in 2013/14, I had become friendly with a female artist who was very much interested in manga and together we cooked up a scenario of taking the rides of Alton Towers into human personas and their various misadventures complaining that their ride isn't being properly maintained for example.

If you've ever seen the anime Hetalia which is based on the idea of countries as human characters, same idea but as rides. Honestly this idea has been done a few times when you check fan art of the rides though I'd need to explain the idea further in a PM to explain it fully to avoid it going off topic here. Anyway the lore here is that when a ride is built, the human representive of said ride is formed but their personality follows that of the ride E.G Nemesis being the big bad of the series with Ripsaw and Blade as his minions, Air being the heroine (yes she was to be the lead protagonist) to battle Nemesis with Smiler and Oblivion being brothers though are very different with the former being a fall guy and the latter being the obvious straight guy and annoyed by Smiler constantly.

Yeah, I actually had all the characters worked out for each the rides and I still have notes and some artwork my artist friend did at the time and it is a shame we never got far with it as if I explained it fully it would have quite a lot of potential that if had been taken on as nothing more than one huge glorified marketing campaign for the park then you'd likely not seen IP based attractions on park.

And the less said about the cinematic universe crossover with those at Blackpool and Thrope etc...Manga and Alton Towers, who'd ever believe such a thing might have happened.

 

[Trooper Looper]

Funnily enough I have a story about taking the Alton brand to new heights. What some of you don't know about me is that I have been writing up comic scripts for my artist friend who is pretty much going places, buy anyway back in 2013/14, I had become friendly with a female artist who was very much interested in manga and together we cooked up a scenario of taking the rides of Alton Towers into human personas and their various misadventures complaining that their ride isn't being properly maintained for example.

If you've ever seen the anime Hetalia which is based on the idea of countries as human characters, same idea but as rides. Honestly this idea has been done a few times when you check fan art of the rides though I'd need to explain the idea further in a PM to explain it fully to avoid it going off topic here. Anyway the lore here is that when a ride is built, the human representive of said ride is formed but their personality follows that of the ride E.G Nemesis being the big bad of the series with Ripsaw and Blade as his minions, Air being the heroine (yes she was to be the lead protagonist) to battle Nemesis with Smiler and Oblivion being brothers though are very different with the former being a fall guy and the latter being the obvious straight guy and annoyed by Smiler constantly.

Yeah, I actually had all the characters worked out for each the rides and I still have notes and some artwork my artist friend did at the time and it is a shame we never got far with it as if I explained it fully it would have quite a lot of potential that if had been taken on as nothing more than one huge glorified marketing campaign for the park then you'd likely not seen IP based attractions on park.

And the less said about the cinematic universe crossover with those at Blackpool and Thrope etc...Manga and Alton Towers, who'd ever believe such a thing might have happened.

That ain't very British now is it. Manga Personas of Roller Coasters? Yeah I can't see that working in the UK to be completely honest with you there. No offence.

Weird... but ok...

 

[JAperson]

Funnily enough I have a story about taking the Alton brand to new heights. What some of you don't know about me is that I have been writing up comic scripts for my artist friend who is pretty much going places, buy anyway back in 2013/14, I had become friendly with a female artist who was very much interested in manga and together we cooked up a scenario of taking the rides of Alton Towers into human personas and their various misadventures complaining that their ride isn't being properly maintained for example.

If you've ever seen the anime Hetalia which is based on the idea of countries as human characters, same idea but as rides. Honestly this idea has been done a few times when you check fan art of the rides though I'd need to explain the idea further in a PM to explain it fully to avoid it going off topic here. Anyway the lore here is that when a ride is built, the human representive of said ride is formed but their personality follows that of the ride E.G Nemesis being the big bad of the series with Ripsaw and Blade as his minions, Air being the heroine (yes she was to be the lead protagonist) to battle Nemesis with Smiler and Oblivion being brothers though are very different with the former being a fall guy and the latter being the obvious straight guy and annoyed by Smiler constantly.

Yeah, I actually had all the characters worked out for each the rides and I still have notes and some artwork my artist friend did at the time and it is a shame we never got far with it as if I explained it fully it would have quite a lot of potential that if had been taken on as nothing more than one huge glorified marketing campaign for the park then you'd likely not seen IP based attractions on park.

And the less said about the cinematic universe crossover with those at Blackpool and Thrope etc...Manga and Alton Towers, who'd ever believe such a thing might have happened.

That’s a very interesting idea, would’ve been nice to see it come to fruition just to see what it was like. Might have been good, as it certainly sounds interesting. It would be great for any enthusiast to get all the little Easter eggs and such like that would inevitably involved in something like that.

 

[Rob]

We seem to be drifting away from the topic in hand here, so just a little reminder that this is for discussion about the Dungeons.

Thanks!

 

[WickerWonder18]

Hi everyone,

Just thought I'd make a thread about the Alton Towers Dungeon, apologies if there already is one but I couldn't find it.

What's everyone's thoughts on it?
What sort of state is it in?
Will it be gone at the end of the season?

 

[Trooper Looper]

Hi everyone,

Just thought I'd make a thread about the Alton Towers Dungeon, apologies if there already is one but I couldn't find it.

What's everyone's thoughts on it?
What sort of state is it in?
Will it be gone at the end of the season?

Finally, a thread about this topic.
I've always found Alton Towers Dungeon such a waste of space to me, I knownit isn't that popular to Guests as you have to book it, and let's be real here, who would go through their way booking and paying for only a specific ride when already having a great day out?

If I had to guess how long it'll be around for, I can't see more than 3 years. Apart from the amazing actors in there, there really isn't anything in there that's worth all the booking...

The sooner they close it the better for me personally.



If we don't hear this outside of the Attraction the next season it closes, we'll riot

 

[RicketyCricket]

One of the most Merlin attractions ever.

Huge show building which has previously housed three different themed boat rides. They leave it to rot for a few years and they turn it into an upcharge advertisement for the Dungeons brand?

Its a hugely neglected area of the park and a fresh dark ride would add signifantly more value to the overall guest experience.

It winds me up for more than it should do

 

[Danscott22]

There is already a thread on the Dungeon isn't there? I'd imagine these thoughts could go in there. I'm sure one of the mods can move this discussion when they see it. In terms of my thoughts, it needs to go. I've done it twice, and it's good, but not suitable for what Alton Towers are currently offering, particularly with the short opening hours. Who can spare 45 minutes of a 6 hour day?

 

[Skyscraper]

Here's the original thread;

The Alton Towers Dungeon

Towers Times are reporting on Facebook that a patient has been filed for Alton Towers Dungeons by Merlin Operations limited.... Could this be an extension to the Sub Terra building perhaps?

towersstreet.com

 

[Craig]

Topics merged.

Just thought I'd make a thread about the Alton Towers Dungeon, apologies if there already is one but I couldn't find it.

If you're searching for existing threads, the best thing to do in the search bar is to tick the search titles only option. That'll stop any mention of dungeon in posts from showing up in the search results

 

[Shaggy_Dog_]

There is already a thread on the Dungeon isn't there? I'd imagine these thoughts could go in there. I'm sure one of the mods can move this discussion when they see it. In terms of my thoughts, it needs to go. I've done it twice, and it's good, but not suitable for what Alton Towers are currently offering, particularly with the short opening hours. Who can spare 45 minutes of a 6 hour day?

In a recent TPWW vlog Shaun made a great point in that it would have been better for them to have situated the Dungeons outside of the main park and have it open as a separate attraction open until later in the evening. Like you say for many people coming to the park they aren’t going to want to sacrifice that large amount of time to do the Dungeons when there are rides to be done and park opening hours are limited.

But to be honest though, if the Dungeons were removed and replaced with something else I don’t think too many people would miss it at all.