Skyscraper
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Nemesis
If they really wanted an IP, they'll have Cadbury to use by then...
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The Alton Towers Dungeon
- Thread starter GaryH
- Start date
Trooper Looper
TS Member
Oh no...If they really wanted an IP, they'll have Cadbury to use by then.
OH NO....
Plastic Person
TS Member
To be honest, I'd love to see a Cadbury themed family dark ride at Alton. It would also serve as a nod to the old Chocolate House, perfect for the oldies, or the borrowed nostalgia obsessives.
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Mako (SeaWorld Orlando)
I do agree with the sentiment of this post, as I’d personally love to see the Dungeons ride system reused for a new family dark ride that’s included in admission at some point, but my one friendly question is; would the general park-visiting populace really care about it being an IP ride if it added something to the family lineup? I don’t think people would really think too much about such a ride being an IP ride; in fact, I dare say that an IP might increase the appeal of a ride more for many!
TWODW is hardly a kids’ IP in the same vein as CBeebies (it’s aimed at the sort of middle-ground demographic that many say Towers needs more rides for), and I think a new boat ride for TWODW would ease some of the current burden on Gangsta Granny (which based on my June 2021 ride would struggle to quickly shift any substantial queue, although this may admittedly have changed when they began fully loading the cars again). Also, it could still be an all-family ride; Gangsta Granny is listed under “Laughs & Frights” (which I’ve always perceived as “all-round family fun”), as opposed to “Young Fun & Imagination” (which I’ve always perceived as “kiddie attractions”), so I don’t see why a retheme of the boat ride couldn’t be the same.
Trooper Looper
TS Member
Its probibly down to my own prefernce but me and my family just finds TWODW so boring, and again, we grew up with his books. We don't hate it because of what it lacks, but more likely because it just doesn't feel like Alton Towers and ends up feeling out of place. Im kind of sick and tired of seeing IPs in many parks in UK lately.
Just gimme something original already Merlin that isn't a roller coaster or a flat
Like I said, either Reimagine Toyland Tours, or Come up with something completely new and original for the whole family instead of something that only this generation of youngsters will be able to relate and understand, and then will go out of date within a few years :/
Just gimme something original already Merlin that isn't a roller coaster or a flat
Like I said, either Reimagine Toyland Tours, or Come up with something completely new and original for the whole family instead of something that only this generation of youngsters will be able to relate and understand, and then will go out of date within a few years :/
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Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Mako (SeaWorld Orlando)
That’s a fair viewpoint, and it’s one I do understand to an extent.Its probibly me prefernce but me and my family just finds TWODW so boring, and again, we grew up with his books. We don't hate it because of what it lacks, but more likely because it just doesn't feel like Alton Towers and ends up feeling out of place. Im kind of sick and tired of seeing IPs in many parks in UK lately.
Just gimme something original already Merlin that isn't a roller coaster or a flat
Like I said, either Reimagine Toyland Tours, or Come up with something completely new and original for the whole family instead of something that only this generation of youngsters will be able to relate and understand, and then will go out of date within a few years :/
Although my one question is; if it’s a fun, enjoyable attraction, will people really be bothered by the fact it’s themed to an IP? If it’s putting smiles on faces, surely the ride having an IP theme or not having an IP theme is immaterial? I love a good originally themed ride as much as the next person on here, but as long as the ride is fun and fills its niche well, I don’t personally care that much about whether it’s IP-themed or not. And it could be argued that IPs do perhaps have certain advantages in terms of marketability, as well as possibly a pre-existing appeal for a certain proportion of the park-visiting populace.
I apologise if it seems like I’m purposely conflicting you here, because that wasn’t my intent; I think your opinion is very valid, and I can see why you might have it. I’m only expressing my own personal take, and offering what are a few questions I have surrounding the widespread opposition to IPs within enthusiast circles.
Plastic Person
TS Member
It's perhaps worth highlighting here that even Toyland Tours featured a whopping big I.P. right in the middle of the ride.
Trooper Looper
TS Member
I get where you're going, but it may seem fine for its first few seasons, but constantly using IPs in a theme park is never a benefit for a theme park that isn't a Studio owned Park. That's Understandable when the companies owning them literally only consist of IPs.
In the next few decades for all these IPs, it'll be stupidly expensive to keep retheeming them almost quadruple time more than an Original Themed ride would be.
Another thing to note is, that yes, they may be fun, but if you know the IP really well, and in most cases everyone does, the ride, characters, and story quickly very predictable and quickly becomes lackluster and boring. When I went on an GG, I was very excited from the praise I've heard about its high praise from enthusiasts...
Then I went on it...
Honestly, Duel with Backstage lighting on would still be a Million times better than that shoddy IP ride and area. In short term, it left a VERY sour taste in me and my families mouth. Was incredibly disappointed
That was the last straw I had with any IP.
Another notable IP is Thomas land, loved it as a kid, hates it as a teen. It makes Drayton Manor feel so much smaller with not much to do. The amount of land That Thomas Land has got so much potential with decent Original theming, but there isn't, it's about a Kids show aimed for 4-7 year olds. There were already rides there that young kids could enjoy, such as the Rapids, Buffalo Coaster, The Zoo, Swinging Ship, Dogems, Etc.
By no means a Single temporary IP is a bad thing, it's when it's becoming a long run solution that it's a problem, and I fear it's only the beginning at Alton Towers...
Like I said, either Reimagine Toyland Tours, or something non IP, literally anything but an IP again.
Trooper Looper
TS Member
That's why I'd rather have Toyland Tours Reimagined than an entire replica of what it used to be. New, and fresh ideas, yet retaining a lot of its iconic features characters, and jokes. A 50/50 per say.
QTXAdsy
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Black Hole
Its probibly down to my own prefernce but me and my family just finds TWODW so boring, and again, we grew up with his books. We don't hate it because of what it lacks, but more likely because it just doesn't feel like Alton Towers and ends up feeling out of place. Im kind of sick and tired of seeing IPs in many parks in UK lately.
Just gimme something original already Merlin that isn't a roller coaster or a flat
Like I said, either Reimagine Toyland Tours, or Come up with something completely new and original for the whole family instead of something that only this generation of youngsters will be able to relate and understand, and then will go out of date within a few years :/
I can agree on you with IP's being used for either rides of a whole area and TWODW is no exception. Had a thought about the old Port Discovery concepts that were planned for X-Sector at first, what if instead we had that concept taken off the shelve and used instead for the area instead of turning it into TWODW? Who wouldn't love a steampunk theme which in itself with it's fun look on the future would have been a great contrast to the more sinister vision of the future in X-Sector, that said though I could see it having to be a complete rebuilding out the building facades and not just another repaint which honestly I'd think many on here would very much like more.
Much of the rides would be based on the works of Jules Verne and H.G Wells which might sound like me being a hypocrite saying no more IP rides however these stories are timeless and since that they are all in the public domain, not one penny would have to be shilled out for licence rights. Just imagine it; Instead of GG, you'd have a dark ride themed to something like the H.G Wells novel The Time Machine or maybe gutting out the theatre to turn it into an interactive 4D film of War of the Worlds, maybe use the Mack submarine ride system used in Merlin's Legoland parks to try and squeeze in a ride based of 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea and of course the indoor coaster I've been banging on about in Coaster Corner to turn into being based of From the Earth to the Moon (though honestly I'd like to call it Black Hole just for old time sake!)
Now to keep things on topic, if you were to do that, instead of using the Dungeons for that area, to fit in, I think some of you can see where this is going...yes, we bring back Around the World in 80 Days which would be a real full circle moment and if that were all to happen, you'd have a really stacked area which would vastly improve it on the grand scale. Who else would love to see this idea? Yeah, I think Alton Towers Dungeons should be given the boot from the park as the Dungeon attractions IMO shouldn't be anywhere near a theme park.
Trooper Looper
TS Member
I absolutely love this idea, and it could very well work. I may prefer Toyland Tours, but bringing back Around the World in 80 days with new effects would be just as special!!!
I actually think that the concept of Port Discovery would also work very well, and possibly be more Successful than TWODW.
Jules verne, and H.G. Welles really isn't an IP when compared to most of today's IP, I'd say its more of a specific theme rather than Intellectual property.
The only trouble there'd be is 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea. Disneyland already had their own version of it back in the 50s.
But as a whole, love all your ideas, with new and fresh ideas, and concepts, and nostaligic elements such as bringing back Around the World in 80 days for the old school fans. Something for EVERYONE to enjoy.
John Wardley would be proud
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QTXAdsy
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Black Hole
Thank you very much!I absolutely love this idea, and it could very well work. I may prefer Toyland Tours, but bringing back Around the World in 80 days with new effects would be just as special!!!
I actually think that the concept of Port Discovery would also work very well, and possibly be more Successful than TWODW.
Jules verne, and H.G. Welles really isn't an IP when compared to most of today's IP, I'd say its more of a specific theme rather than Intellectual property.
The only trouble there'd be is 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea. Disneyland already had their own version of it back in the 50s.
But as a whole, love all your ideas, with new and fresh ideas, and concepts, and nostaligic elements such as bringing back Around the World in 80 days for the old school fans. Something for EVERYONE to enjoy.
John Wardley would be proud
You see, us Scots have talent to create theme parks, just nowhere here to use them or down to lack of money, ho hum.Anyway regarding 20k, I see where you are coming from but all the same, I just find the idea of a submarine voyage idea fascinating with MACK ride technology in which given how many they've installed in the Legoland parks and the experience of building them in Merlin parks, perhaps the system could be revamped to have a layout twice as large.
Part of me kinda does see gutting out entirely the Dungeons building including the ride system for that due the large space in there but all the same, a return of 80 days to Towers would actually be a welcomed one for the older fans as you just said and might actually work better than TT in longevity which is saying a lot from someone who loved TT.
This is all saying without bringing in what to do with the Nickelodeon building and what to do with it, maybe just turn into an indoor large play area not so similar ironically to what was in before under its Outta Control days.
Heh, with all these dark rides in the area, not only could we have called it dark ride corner but then after all our complaints about the lack of dark rides on the park, we'd be spoiled for choice, haha! And I haven't talked about what flat rides to put there but I'm going off topic now.
But yeah, out with Dungeons please!
Trooper Looper
TS Member
Yep, out with it I say as well!!!Thank you very much!
Anyway regarding 20k, I see where you are coming from but all the same, I just find the idea of a submarine voyage idea fascinating with MACK ride technology in which given how many they've installed in the Legoland parks and the experience of building them in Merlin parks, perhaps the system could be revamped to have a layout twice as large.
Part of me kinda does see gutting out entirely the Dungeons building including the ride system for that due the large space in there but all the same, a return of 80 days to Towers would actually be a welcomed one for the older fans as you just said and might actually work better than TT in longevity which is saying a lot from someone who loved TT.
This is all saying without bringing in what to do with the Nickelodeon building and what to do with it, maybe just turn into an indoor large play area not so similar ironically to what was in before under its Outta Control days.
Heh, with all these dark rides in the area, not only could we have called it dark ride corner but then after all our complaints about the lack of dark rides on the park, we'd be spoiled for choice, haha! And I haven't talked about what flat rides to put there but I'm going off topic now.
But yeah, out with Dungeons please!
If 20k was done, it'd have to be done very differently than the one Disney used to have, so you know, Disney can't write a Copywrite claim about it being a Ripoff.
Well, if The worst case scenario comes, that being TWODW staying, at least we'll have valid excuses why Merlin SHOULD bring back Toyland Tours, or Around the World in 80 days.
Actually, you know what. Imma make a Vote post in Tablot Street which of the Parks Dark rides people would want back.
EDIT: Done, made it. If anyone's interested about the post and wants to vote, here's a link for anyone.
https://towersstreet.com/talk/threads/which-of-the-parks-former-dark-rides-would-you-want-back.6131/
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Bert2theSpark
TS Member
Maybe after Hex has retired, they could reuse the parts of Hex currently in the Towers for a preshow/queue line for a ride (such as a flying theatre) themed to Darwin and Sir Algenon's adventures and then use part of the Conservatory where the Hex exit now as the entrance to a relocated Dungeon and then have a new finale themed around the Chained Oak tree and the Hex story as a homage and possibly even rename Woodcutters to The Fallen Branch, themed as an extension of Dark Forest.
Black River/Charlie and the Chocolate Factory could be rethemed either to Walliams or another IP and the Great Glass Elevator extension, mostly occupied by Trick O Treat Town currently, either repurposed as a new walkthrough attraction or as another family scare maze location.
It would definitely help with more large indoor attractions after Hex, whilst keeping the Dungeons around and the legacy of the Towers themselves as part of the future of the park. It would also allow the park to expand it's line-up during the Christmas offering and more attractions available to guests during bad weather.
Black River/Charlie and the Chocolate Factory could be rethemed either to Walliams or another IP and the Great Glass Elevator extension, mostly occupied by Trick O Treat Town currently, either repurposed as a new walkthrough attraction or as another family scare maze location.
It would definitely help with more large indoor attractions after Hex, whilst keeping the Dungeons around and the legacy of the Towers themselves as part of the future of the park. It would also allow the park to expand it's line-up during the Christmas offering and more attractions available to guests during bad weather.
Skyscraper
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Nemesis
Unfortunately that wouldn't be possible because, as part of the planning permission for Hex, when it is removed the tin building attached to the Towers that houses the vault must be completely removed as well.
Skyscraper
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Nemesis
Matt.GC
TS Member
Even though I'm nearly 40 now, I'm a massive Sonic the Hedgehog fan. I grew up with his games, I was 9 when the original game took the world by storm and watched the marketing hype as Sonic 2 came nearer to release. It was massive, like a blockbuster movie. Every bus stop, every billboard, TV ads, happy meal toys, the lot. Michael Jackson was responsible for much of the music in Sonic 3, Sonic was in the Masseys Day Parade. At one point (and I'm being deadly serious), Sonic the Hedgehog was recognised worldwide by more people than Mickey Mouse! That's right, Sonic was bigger than Mickey Mouse.
Toyland yours launched the same year as Sonic 3 and it's second part, Sonic & Knuckles. It was featured in the Sonic room (which had a rendition of Green Hill Zone from the original 1991 game playing in it) and always smacked of a massive advert for the game. Riding it in 94, it was incredibly relevent at the time and was like a dream come true for me and many other kids my age group.
The very next year, the PlayStation and Sega Saturn launched. The Saturn didn't have a proper Sonic game at launch, and arguably never had a proper Sonic game until the console ended up being ditched by Sega.
By the time Toyland closed, not much more than a decade after the ride had opened - PlayStation 2, from Sony who never even had a console out in 94, had become the best selling console of all time, the Xbox 360 was nearing release, the PlayStation 3 was on its way and Sega had released and discontinued the Sega Saturns successor - the much loved Dreamcast and then pulled out of console manufacturing entirely. Yet Toyland still had a whole section dedicated to an extremely successful late lifecycle Mega Drive release.
This is the problem with ill thought out IP's. They need to be timeless or at least be relevant for a good decade or so. My much beloved blue blur is still around, but not like he was in 94. Just imagine going through the Sonic room in TT in 2005!
Skyscraper
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Nemesis