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The Retrosquad: General Discussion

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I'm of the opinion that they need to stay, and ideally need to be more reliable (looking at you Funk'N'Fly). I know they are far from ideal however there is clearly not a current CAPEX budget for new flat rides, and it does come back to these being better than nothing. They do give extra capacity to the park, even if it is somewhat limited.

I'd like to think that there will be a budget for new permanent flats sometime in the next 3 or 4 years.
 
Rob said:
I'm of the opinion that they need to stay, and ideally need to be more reliable (looking at you Funk'N'Fly). I know they are far from ideal however there is clearly not a current CAPEX budget for new flat rides, and it does come back to these being better than nothing. They do give extra capacity to the park, even if it is somewhat limited.

I'd like to think that there will be a budget for new permanent flats sometime in the next 3 or 4 years.
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Agreed, I'd rather have temporary flat rides than no flat rides.
 
I suspect the powers that be at Merlin want a strong business case that the demand for flat rides is sustained and not just a flash in the pan linked to covid recovery.

The more evidence of long term demand that the park can build into the business case for capex the better.
 
Rob said:
I'm of the opinion that they need to stay, and ideally need to be more reliable (looking at you Funk'N'Fly). I know they are far from ideal however there is clearly not a current CAPEX budget for new flat rides, and it does come back to these being better than nothing. They do give extra capacity to the park, even if it is somewhat limited.

I'd like to think that there will be a budget for new permanent flats sometime in the next 3 or 4 years.
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I would be much happier for them to stay as an interim solution if there was even a vague attempt to theme them to the area - maybe cover up all those garish fairground lights and stop playing naff 80s music in all areas of the park. The actual rides themselves aren't really the problem for me.
 
Sambiasso said:
Spin Jam would be an excellent permanent addition in X Sector with proper theming to Ministry Of Joy.
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Yeah, could honestly buy it outright from whoever owns it, do it up in X-Sector colours, a new name and that's yer lot. Honestly suprise Towers haven't considered the thought if they know that they won't be able to get a permanent flat ride for a few years and might just say 'to hell with it' and try and do the work on site.
 
QTXAdsy said:
Yeah, could honestly buy it outright from whoever owns it, do it up in X-Sector colours, a new name and that's yer lot. Honestly suprise Towers haven't considered the thought if they know that they won't be able to get a permanent flat ride for a few years and might just say 'to hell with it' and try and do the work on site.
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It's Wilmott's Air Raid, think Southerners would be very upset if Towers bought it. Towers would be better off buying a brand new one, and I don't think they buy second hand anyway.
 
I hope they aren't staying, they're fairground rides that have no place at Alton Towers. They should be putting the money they're throwing at Mellors into permenant rides. They should be looking at finding ride capacity any other way than hiring out fairground rides. I really hope they do not return next year; I was fine with them the first year and have tolerated them this year, next year I really think it's pushing it.
 
Agree with the idea of a permanent version of Spinjam. Decent enough throughput, gives a good ride and looks impressive to watch.

If the options are Another 3 years of Retrosquad or nothing I know which I would prefer.
 
Could someone tell me which rides are "fairground rides", and which are "rides".
They are all fairground rides, every last one.
Terminology alert!
I've only been doing this hobby for fifty years, I'm getting a bit confused.
 
rob666 said:
Could someone tell me which rides are "fairground rides", and which are "rides".
They are all fairground rides, every last one.
Terminology alert!
I've only been doing this hobby for fifty years, I'm getting a bit confused.
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John Wardley makes a fair point on this, which is basically that he has no problem with flat rides (which he accepts are basically fairground rides) providing they’re themed and made to be interesting.

The issue with the current crop of retro squad is they feel like someone has dragged and dropped them from a fairground into a theme park and they don’t suit the area that they’re in at all (and by all acccounts aren’t designed for the kind of consistent long term use which a theme park will demand).

I don’t think many people struggle to see the difference between, for example, Ripsaw, and anything that’s been included in the Retro Squad.

I’m happy for them to be here for another 5 years if it’s genuinely needed providing there is a plan in place to replace them with more suitable rides, however I’m not yet seeing any evidence that is the plan, as currently it looks like we’re losing one flat ride in Enterprise and (hopefully) gaining one in NST (which is far from confirmed itself), so I’m not really seeing a phasing out of temporary rides in favour of permanent rides (although of course it’s possible there’s a plan to do 2 or 3 in one season as Thorpe did in the 2000s).
 
The retro squad shouldn’t be here, but to say you’d prefer nothing over the RS is they are the only two options right now is ludicrous. We’d all rather permanent rides obviously, but for the purpose of the options being:-
1. Retro Squad; or
2. Empty spaces
Surely everyone would take the former option?
 
Danscott22 said:
The retro squad shouldn’t be here, but to say you’d prefer nothing over the RS is they are the only two options right now is ludicrous. We’d all rather permanent rides obviously, but for the purpose of the options being:-
1. Retro Squad; or
2. Empty spaces
Surely everyone would take the former option?
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Yes but I think there’s an argument to suggest they might be forced to deal with the glaring issue a bit quicker if they didn’t have the fall back option of renewing the leases every year.

Maybe not to be fair as they weren’t there for the previous 15 years where they’ve not invested in flats, but I do think there’s an element of Merlin testing how much luck can be pushed and thinking ‘great, that’s fine for another few years’.

Perhaps I’m being cynical.
 
There is no reason no retro-squad needs to lead to bigger queue's on the actually decent rides. There are plenty of other options the park can do that would probably cost less than what they are paying to have the silly fairground tat. Examples of the sorts of things they could do:
  • Run Galactica with three trains. two stations at all times
  • Put a cheap attraction in the Oblivion shop - could be something as simple as a mirror maze but they could actually theme it to X-sector. A ministry of joy test or something like that, there's plenty of cheap and easy options.
  • Have that Mack VR experience somewhere but make it free
  • Make the dungeons free with timed ticketing
  • Or actually build some flat rides that are somewhat themed into the area's
There are plenty of other options, if they continue like this with fairground rides it will become normal and towers will just always have them which I think is completely wrong. They must get rid of them ASAP.
 
Making the dungeons free would have been the logical thing to do, especially when Hex was down for so long, Thirteen shut at the first time of spitting rain and having Duel shut for the last 2 months too.
Free timed tickets would have reduced queue times at peak times, I'd do it as a free attraction but wouldn't pay for it.
 
JAperson said:
There is no reason no retro-squad needs to lead to bigger queue's on the actually decent rides. There are plenty of other options the park can do that would probably cost less than what they are paying to have the silly fairground tat. Examples of the sorts of things they could do:
  • Run Galactica with three trains. two stations at all times
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I'm sure they'd love to. Take staff absences or technical issues into consideration, however, and this is not necessarily possible.
JAperson said:
  • Put a cheap attraction in the Oblivion shop - could be something as simple as a mirror maze but they could actually theme it to X-sector. A ministry of joy test or something like that, there's plenty of cheap and easy options.
Click to expand...
This isn't feasible for a number of reasons. Whilst Oblivion's capacity is nowhere near where it ought to be, a mirror maze would bottle neck the exit. From a marketing perspective, Thorpe had to bolt an IP onto their mirror maze for any degree of success. A mirror maze is nowhere near as marketable nor as satisfying to the guest experience unless a good chunk of cash is thrown at it.
JAperson said:
  • Have that Mack VR experience somewhere but make it free
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VR experiences cost money to produce, and the equipment costs money to rent. Even using stock films like they're doing at the moment, but taking away the upcharge element, is not a ROI. Again, you'd have to rely on throwing cash at marketing this which would be better spent elsewhere. The VR experience fad is not a worthwhile attraction to replace a flat ride.
JAperson said:
  • Make the dungeons free with timed ticketing
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This is the most realistic suggestion of all your points, but won't happen due to the associated costs with staffing it.
JAperson said:
  • Or actually build some flat rides that are somewhat themed into the area's
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I'm sure that's on the agenda, but they have an allocated capex to work to. The Retrosquad, whilst not ideal, is a temporary solution that aids in justifying the need for flat rides. Given Merlin's recent efforts with theming, it's highly probable any new flat rides will be themed appropriately. I'm sure there is more demand for temporary flat rides than a VR experience for certain.
 
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