[The Smiler] Construction Updates and Ride Speculation

[Dar]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I'd say this was a fairly big project. Even in "context". Not as big as Nemesis. Nemesis was a huge undertaking, both from the view point of blowing the holes in the ground and constructing the ride.

But Oblivion is just a straight drop into a big hole. Once the tunnel was dug and the track was laid, it would have been a piece of cake.

Thirteen, the drop was in planning and prep for months before on park construction even started. The actual construction part of the project was fairly easy. Dig a circle shaped tunnel, fill with track, cover, build rest of track and station.

Rita was just a drag and drop! And even that was late

With this, each bit of the ride is dependant on the last bit being finished. They can't just start building over the toilets if the bottom's not finished because then they couldn't get the bottom finished. So even a small delay, such as the unprecedented amount of rain we've seen this year, can end up becoming magnified by a huge amount. We don't know if Gerst have had a problem with getting the track manufactured or even had a problem getting it into the country!

Yes, it's obviously delayed, but that's probably more down to poor planning on Alton's end. Trying to cover up construction and what not.

 

[Jordan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I can't believe this is even being brought into question, to be honest.

This is a big and complex project. To the park, it is as complex a project as any other secret weapon.

It is a very long coaster. It has an underground section at the heart of the ride area which has to be dug, completed, and covered before much of the surrounding landscaping and track can be installed. It may have never-before-seen combinations of track elements for Gerstlauer. A significant amount of track has to be installed above existing buildings without damage.

I think it is very naive of anybody to suggest that this project is simple not as complex in comparison with other secret weapons.

 

[CupCakeMonster]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I think it is very naive of anybody to suggest that this project is simple in comparison with other secret weapons.

Not simple. Just, not AS complex.
It feels like somebody's pressing a 'replay' button whenever I have to say this.

 

[Tom]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

The indoor section is going to contain millions of pounds worth of elements/features. The project is at least as complex as TH13TEEN was. It seems that complexity is what is being debated here, not literal size.

If you are right Tom, I will be very happy to say - wow, they were doing something monumental here, that I did not recognise! I have not seen evidence to suggest millions of pounds of indoor features and elements - that's a big statement you make there, comparing it to the complexity of SW6.

If SW7 has loads of crazy, complex, indoor section technology I will very, very happily stand in that queue #corrected!! ;D

I'll hold you to that, but remember, complexity and cost is not determined by how good you or anyone else thinks it is

If this is costing nearly £5m than Saw - with all of its indoor features - I think it is reasonable to conclude that this is going to contain a couple of surprises inside, not least the world-first feature.

 

[TheMan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I'm not remotely fussed if people think I am naive or not!

I remember Oblivion being built first hand, and Nemesis, and what they compared to with what was already around, and the kind of technology I had in my hand at that time!

This doesn't even come close. This is, a slightly longer, slightly heavier Eurofighter, built into a smaller pit than Nemesis, containing apparently no world's first (ie, stuff that hasn't been done before - world beating, different story, may well be simply how many inversions) which is the UKs Third longest rollercoaster apparently.

Wow, the stats are really stacking up aren't they!

So, it's pretty much all been done before on different coasters, indoor, pit, gerst, long... ish, yet this is supposed to surmount the challenges faced by Oblivion and Nemesis?

Just to ensure, I am not taken out of context - I still think this coaster will be fabulous in it's own right, and I am very excited by it and remain so - but that does not mean that I will throw realism out of the window.

I'll hold you to that, but remember, complexity and cost is not determined by how good you or anyone else thinks it is

If this is costing nearly £5m than Saw - with all of its indoor features - I think it is reasonable to conclude that this is going to contain a couple of surprises inside, not least the world-first feature.

That's true, but I will also hold you to the fact there will be a "World First"... something other than how many times it goes upside down!

As for Saw, inflation will take care of a bit of that, as would the land excavation, which at no point did I say was simple of easy - but not of the scale of Nemesis or Oblivion.

 

[CupCakeMonster]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I'll hold you to that, but remember, complexity and cost is not determined by how good you or anyone else thinks it is

Complexity and Cost though, are not necessarily directly proportional

 

[Mike]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

TheMan, you're talking as if SW7 is on the same scale as the Beastie or similar! It most certainly is a complex operation - even if it is a bog-standard Eurofighter design (very worst-case scenario), it's more complex than Rita, and arguably more complex from a technology POV than Oblivion.

Coaster delays happen sometimes sadly, and as speculated, it could be a number of things - the weather, non-availability of parts, bad organisation on Alton's part etc. The truth is, we just don't know. We don't even know if it IS delayed, so it's a bit premature to call the potential non-opening of a coaster on time 'ridiculous' or similar....

 

[TheMan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I think it is very naive of anybody to suggest that this project is simple in comparison with other secret weapons.

Not simple. Just, not AS complex.
It feels like somebody's pressing a 'replay' button whenever I have to say this.

Yes, but their point becomes moot without misrepresenting what you are saying CCM.

I don't recall you saying it was "simple", or even not a challenge, but instead as I am also, paying a decent amount of respect and homage to what their forerunners achieved with similar budgets but far, far less technology and experience, and on time, creating truly world class attractions that remain so today.

 

[Jordan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I think it is very naive of anybody to suggest that this project is simple in comparison with other secret weapons.

Not simple. Just, not AS complex.
It feels like somebody's pressing a 'replay' button whenever I have to say this.

Swapped the words out. I believe it is as complex as any other secret weapon.

 

[CupCakeMonster]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

TheMan, you're talking as if SW7 is on the same scale as the Beastie or similar!

Oi... Don't hate on The Beastie.. She's still there *whispers* She can still hear you *whispers*, and she was a good little coaster in her time

non-availability of parts

I hope it's not this! They've had enough time to sort it out.

 

[TheMan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

TheMan, you're talking as if SW7 is on the same scale as the Beastie or similar!

How?

Show me where I said that please.

I find the fact, that I am standing by Oblivion being built, with similar budget (maybe even less), greater land excavation, and far inferior technology to build it, to point out this is not on such a grand scale, to be perfectly logical, and in no way suggests that I am comparing SW7 to Beastie.

Yes, delays to happen, but never have they happened to an SW, that were built under more challenging technical backdrops than SW7 is. That is a hard fact, regardless of how many of you disagree with it, for what purpose though I have zero idea.

Oblivion, 15 years ago, harder to build than SW7 with way more technology and experience available. Unless, for about the umpteenth time, something has happened on site that no one was expecting. That happens in construction.

Otherwise, certainly not more difficult than Nemmy or Oblivion.

 

[Dar]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

But Oblivion is just a straight drop into a big hole. Once the tunnel was dug and the track was laid, it would have been a piece of cake.

 

[Maya]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Sw7 is a big invesment- but unless alton are hiding anything its just a eurofighter. Yeah with a bit of landscaping etc, but its been done before, tberefore shouldnt be that technically hard.

 

[Scott]

Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Just because this isn't a brand new piece of theme park technology, a new track style, or a brand new coaster type does not stop this from being a huge and incredibly complex ride. How anyone can say otherwise baffles me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.

 

[Rob]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

TheMan, please could you explain to use why you are an industry expert when it comes to how difficult (or not) it is to build a coaster, or anything for that matter? Sure we can all speculate what may or may not be difficult or challenging, and can compare to previous projects. But you appear to have concrete evidence that SW7 is not anywhere near as difficult to build as previous SWs. I and I'm sure many others would love to know the reasons behind this, something more than "the hole's not as big" or "it's not technologically advanced".

 

[CupCakeMonster]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

But Oblivion is just a straight drop into a big hole. Once the tunnel was dug and the track was laid, it would have been a piece of cake.

You can't just forget about the hole, that is the essence of the ride, plus wasn't it at least a full years construction just for the hole?

 

[TheMan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

But Oblivion is just a straight drop into a big hole. Once the tunnel was dug and the track was laid, it would have been a piece of cake.

Not true.

Oblivion was the world's first Dive Coaster, that took years to develop, so you have new track, a new ride system, the shuttle system in the station, building up and then a monumental sized hole - pretty much none of this had ever been done before.

Pretty much everything on Oblivion was new, not happy with that, they built about 100ft into the ground!! That's taller than many of this countries lift hills!

Oblivion was, and remains, a technical marvel. They not remotely comparable, especially if you factor in the resources around to build and design such monsters.

 

[Dave]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Why does any delay have to be with Gerst, maybe there was issues with the ground or something of similar ilk. You only have to watch Grand Designs to see the mad little things that can cause huge delay's in construction work.

At the end of the day this is still speculation (as the news article say's) and if it is true we may never know why it happened but i imagine there is a damn good reason seing as the last people who actually want a delay is Towers.

I doubt anyone at Merlin was arse'ing around with this, just sometimes stuff happens.

As for Oblivion the main technological challenge was the ride cars and the chain conveyors (source JW interview).

 

[Islander]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Just because this isn't a brand new piece of theme park technology, a new track style, or a brand new coaster type does not stop this from being a huge and incredibly complex ride. How anyone can say otherwise baffles me.

Think the salient point is that only two people are saying that, whilst everyone else disagrees vehemently.

With that in mind, and considering that they certainly won't persuade the masses otherwise (and clearly the masses won't persuade them), is there really any point in continuing this frankly dull argument? Surely we should get back to discussing interesting things .

So...

That's a lot of concrete panels. Can we assume they're for the station walls? They look like the slabs used to line the pit (so maybe there's still lining to be done), plus I'd have assumed the station walls would be sheet metal (like a warehouse), rather than concrete. Or did the planning docs state otherwise?

 

[GaryH]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I think a lot of people are going to be very disappointed come opening day if they are expecting millions spent on an amazing indoor section and some world beating trick track. Just think Air tunnel.......

I agree with others, this is just a Euro fighter, the same as built in other parks, just with a few more twists and turns. I think some people are getting carried away with unconfirmed fantasy and what is essentially reality.