[The Smiler] Construction Updates and Ride Speculation

[Jordan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

There's a minority of very vocal sceptics who have dominated most of the discussion here. I don't think for a second that the views of those few are representative of the overall community.

This is shaping up to be Alton Towers' Novgorod, with a little bit extra on the side. I don't see how anyone can complain at that.

 

[TheMan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Yes that's true Dan. Hence I am tentative, and indeed hope it is world class. This is the first time I've been remotely negative about Sw7 as a ride. And much like the delays I wonder if those who dont think it will be that special will be proven right.

All the concepts and ideas that came out before I've been very positive about so I find it astonishing how quick you get jumped on if something creates a doubt in your mind.

I have also said though, multiple times... again, that I'm not saying it won't be top class, I'm just more doubtful as time goes on. I really hope it is!

 

[Rocket]

Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Speed at oakwood is definitely smoother than saw! I've been on it and it felt smoother.
Saw is just a rough eurofighter, its not the best example of what can be done.

 

[LiamC]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

This one is what it will look like all filled in properly:

Looks to me like it's going to be pretty spot on in terms of following the submitted plans.

The only thing I think will differ slightly is that first lift hill there. I can't really see a standard lift hill being used on this coaster at all. AFAIK it's not really Gersts thing (vertical/launches) and if it's Towers way of extending the ride time like they've said people have asked for, it's kind of a cop out in my book.

I'm 95% sure we'll see some kind of launch/element before that middle lift hill instead of a normal lift hill

I think that is harsh Dan. Ultimately I have been quite excited by this, but that perspective makes it feel too much like Saw for me. I'm not saying it will be a bad ride. I just hope for SW7 it will be much better than Saw. That is by no means unreasonable.

Just to pick up on your points about Saw and what other people have said, I don't really see people problems with it?

I rode it for the first time back in June this year and thought it was fantastic. I think the theming is top notch, even if it is a bit off a naff IP in my opinion, and the ride itself is enjoyable and exciting. The only downside is it's a tad on the quite rough side. Aside from that, it's a quality thrill ride and does what it's intended to do.

To be honest, it annoys me that Towers are getting a bashing because there's a chance this isn't going to be a world first ride. What's wrong with them investing money in just a solid ride and experience, rather than having to pull some gimmick out of the bag? £18 million is a phenomenal amount of money to spend on a coaster in my opinion, world first or not

 

[Meat Pie]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Saw has the theme of a big mechanical torture device... The least you would expect is for it to be a bit rough.

Likewise, if SW7 calls for a bit of roughness... Man-up people.

 

[BigDave]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Im also getting slightly bugged by the negativity in this topic. Can we not simply just follow the construction and look forward to it opening (whenever that might be)?

 

[gforce-ste]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I agree big dave! Lets keep positive and enjoy updatesvespecially photos of constuction advancement. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. However it feels like a lot of people are bringing down the enjoyment of this project. Lets all just look forward to it

 

[JB1985]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Towers just cant win, after Th13teen we were all moaning as it was a gimmicky ride. Now were all moaning due to the 'potential' lack of worlds first trick trak.

I wish some new updates would come through as this is getting boring

 

[Jonathan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I don't really mind if there's no trick track. The coaster alone looks great, so to have any trick track would be a bonus.

 

[Tom]

Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

'Trick track' or whatever you want to call it would be damagingly expensive to develop. I sincerely hope there are no gimmicks and that £18m is being spent on a conventionally record-breaking ride with a lot of the budget going on the queue, shop and station. A reminder that Thirteen cost £15m and that's a family coaster in terms of conventional rollercoaster aspects only.


-Sent from a mobile phone-

 

[Dave]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

When you compare that overlay to the side facing plans the run ins to the Staffordshire knot areat ground level, yet Towers have dug a huge pit that the run ins have gone into. There is at least a 5m difference in the heights of what has been built so far and what is on the plans.

I'm sticking with the plans not being accurate.

 

[LiamC]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

'Trick track' or whatever you want to call it would be damagingly expensive to develop. I sincerely hope there are no gimmicks and that £18m is being spent on a conventionally record-breaking ride with a lot of the budget going on the queue, shop and station. A reminder that Thirteen cost £15m and that's a family coaster in terms of conventional rollercoaster aspects only.


-Sent from a mobile phone-

Precisely my thoughts. Whilst I don't dislike Th13teen at all, I think it's a fantastic piece of kit, what we got for the amount Towers spent on it isn't a great return in my opinion.

Looking at the plans for this new coaster I think we're getting our moneys worth, if not more than our moneys worth, for only £3m more than what Th13teen cost!

 

[TheMan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

That's the first time, I have said anything remotely negative about this ride design.

I was defending the name, Towers not going anything gimmicky etc right from the off. But I think some people here, who have raised earlier concerns may have had some points. I've not said it needs trick track, no idea what the obsession with that is, it only happened on SW6! People talk like it is a mainstay of SW rides or something. Far, far from it. The best rides have had no gimmicks, but brilliant design, and yes some world firsts/European firsts.

Just to clarify my points on Saw, I didn't say it was a bad ride - but it's my least favourite of the majors at Thorpe, and that's not because it's rough... I rate Colossus higher, and boy at the back, that thing is rough as you like!

What I do like about Saw, is its theme, the vertical hill (love it), the first drop and Immelman. After that I find it exceptionally dull. A coaster about 20 years it's senior, still out performs it with aplomb.

Saw is very intimidating in many ways, and the first ride on it was just absolutely fantastic. What I don't believe it has though, is a high re-ride factor. I am admittedly basing it on one ride here, but it's not being rough I'm concerned about after some thought, it is once the initial WOW (which I do believe it will have an abundance of) factor, will it command attention over and over again, in the way Oblivion still does for me, every single time I ride it?

I wouldn't say I'm in the "negative" camp about SW7. I'd say I'm sat in the middle now, having moved from the very positive side about the ride itself.

Coasters are subjective anyway, but what I have noticed, is how much opinions change in this thread now Alton Towers are getting a Gerst! All of a sudden people aren't allowed to question aspects of their quality??

I welcome opinions from both sides of this fence, that don't actually take a personal swipe at anyone.

 

[Scott]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

TheMan, I think the issue here is that people can't understand why you have suddenly moved to the 'middle' as opposed to being 'very positive' after seeing the layout? Something which you have known about for months?

 

[Rob]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Exactly Scott. The layout shown on the overlay is identical to the layout we've known for around a year as seen on the plans. It is also the same as the NoLimits recreation made and numerous other things. It is rather confusing that seeing a layout overlayed onto a photo can cause a change in opinion on the ride/layout, as it's exactly what we've all been expecting!

Saying that, I still don't think the plans are entirely accurate so that overlay could prove to be partly inaccurate also.

One final point, although the Staffordshire knot does appear to be lower than on the plans, it still can be seen from outside of the park to the same extent as shown in the plans, suggesting that it isn't all that much lower.

 

[Dave]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I was referring to the depth of the run-ins to the knot rather than its overall height, though it does also look lower.

 

[BigAl]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Tastes can change, and maybe TheMan and anyone else who's opinion on SW7 has changed recently haven't been following this ride quite as closely as some of us? There's nothing wrong with changing your mind about it if you suddenly prefer something else, or didn't fully realise what we were getting until now.

It's the same for other things such as music, food, programmes on TV, vehicles, so why not with rides? Granted it hasn't been done yet and nobody has been on it.

If you like it, people that don't shouldn't knock them for it. If you don't, people that do shouldn't knock them either. People have all sorts of reasons as to why they might like or dislike something.

 

[Rob]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Well yes. It's just slightly strange that an opinion of a ride can change because a a layout that we've seen in many different formats over the last year has been overlayed over the site. Each to their own though! I still think the layout on the plans look fantastic and I will be more than happy if it is what we get. Though as I said I am expecting changes of some sorts, I just hope these changes don't negatively impact upon the good layout, ie squeezing in inversions for the sake of it. The flow looks really good from the plans and it would be a shame to lose this.

Also a slight general point. I think Gerstlauers get a bit of bad press as it were in this country mainly because of Saw. I dislike the outdoor section of Saw rather a lot as it is quite painful. However Saw does appear to be the odd one out of the Gerstlauers I have been on. Speed is really good and relatively smooth. And Anubis is just brilliant, and perfectly smooth. If this turns out anything like a bigger Anubis then we are onto a real winner.

 

[Meat Pie]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Some caution is probably appropriate, but largely I think people should give SW7 the benefit of the doubt on this one. Don't expect too much and don't expect too little.

Until you have experienced the coaster, it could potentially be anywhere on the scale of being better than Nemesis to being more boring than the Flying Fish while stationary. Of course we can review the information we have and make educated guesses based on what qualities we think make a great coaster and that is only natural, but no-one should get ahead of themselves and dismiss the chance that it might well be the best thing ever, as there is really only one way to find out and that's first-hand experience.

It'd be like dismissing a new album or film before you've actually listened to or watched it.

 

[TheMan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Scott/Rob, (EDIT: and Meat Pie) fair points. That I understand.

I didn't have time to study the plans in great detail when they came out, plus I never find them a great gauge of reality to be honest. Swarm looked a bit dull to me on the plans, yet I am officially a fan - the theme looked great, but so many raised questions on t'other place as to force, etc, that I had quite low expectations of the actual ride. SW6, kind of the reverse. So this time, I was more cautious also. Having had a look at the plans, and some early mock ups, it seemed pretty mad - and (despite my concerns about opening etc) the theme itself is right up my street!

For some reason, and I cannot put a finger on why, no point being dishonest about it - those mock ups just make it look quite dull! Twisty yes, but something deserving of Alton Towers main thrill coaster for many years?

That said, it seems Gerst may have gotten AT out of a hole (excuse the pun), it just makes me wonder how much of that monster budget has actually gone on the ground preparation etc, and how much on the actual hardware itself.

That's no fault of Towers, they are always up against big planning/neighbourly restrictions - but that also resulted in some of this Countries very best rides.

It will be interesting to read this thread when it opens, and longer term, to discover whether this ride actually maintains a level of awe the likes of which Oblivion still delivers now after all these years of operations.

Also, I'd ask people not to view this as me being "down" on Towers, it is actually the opposite. This is our best Theme Park, and one we love greatly, and I believe it deserves the absolute best for many easily justifiable reasons.

Competition is fantastic too, it spurs creativity and invention, so if Gerst have developed a beast here everyone is a winner, and that remains my ultimate hope for the ride and companies involved.

EDIT: Also it seems that I've only ridden a crappier version of a Gerst lol, whilst the roughness doesn't bother me, after the Immelman for me it loses something - but I still ride for the first bits, but if I miss going on one ride at Thorpe, that is the one I'm least bothered about.

Stealth/Swarm however - they for me are fantastic rides that could easily grace the Towers.