2019 General Election Poll and Discussion

[Dave]

all this scare bull from Labour about worker rites, environment etc will be worse after brexit as we dont align with the EU now...
yes we wont be bogged down having to follow we can lead and be better than them.

Ask yourself one simple question, IF this government planned to maintain workers rights why have they removed the commitment from the deal? As Rick has succinctly pointed out there is nothing that stops a national government from leading in workers rights as you can always exceed the minimum.

The irony of this election for me are all the working class people bigging up a Tory government when a Tory government will do nothing but make our lives harder and harder. They will privatise the NHS, they will reduce workers rights and they will allow cheap food to flood the market with an associated increase in harm to consumers. It’s not like you have to be an investigative journalist to see this, the haunted pencil Jacob Reese-Mogg has been clear he believes in disaster capitalism and Jeremy Hunt wrote a book outlining how you can privatise the NHS.

 

[Dave]

10 years ago under labour there was no plan of action for get out of the credit crunch and Recession. I was made redundant so was my wife,mum,Sister and Uncle then fast forward to now and now employment is at a record low for 40 years.

Sorry double post but just seen this.

1) The credit crunch was a global recession that occurred in 2008, the general election came 2 years later. You say there was no plan but economic stimulus take years to show change. There are many economists who think the Tory/ libdem coalitions austerity actually slowed down the recovery when compared to other similar economies.

As for employment numbers, if you omit zero hours contracts (which never used to be part of the numbers), employment figures haven’t changed beyond the slow economic recovery would predict.

If there is two things the Tory’s are good at its 1) finding a scapegoat to pin the blame for their actions (hello EU) and 2) fiddling the numbers.

 

[Matt N]

On another note, I'm personally intrigued to see which party wins in my constituency. My current expectation is the Conservatives, as Mark Harper has been the Forest of Dean's local MP since 2005 and seems to have quite a safe majority (he apparently got 54.3% of the vote in 2017, with Labour in 2nd place getting 35.9%) Also, our constituency apparently voted 58.6% in favour of Leave in the 2016 referendum, so it wouldn't surprise me if the Conservatives win our seat for another 5 years. However, stranger things have definitely happened in politics, so I suppose our area could potentially see a different candidate win.

 

[Dave]

TODAYS JEREMY CORBYN FACTS

Can't think of anything wrong with Jeremy Corbyn apart from...

Invited two IRA members to parliament two weeks after the Brighton bombing.
Attended Bloody Sunday commemoration with bomber Brendan McKenna.
Attended meeting with Provisional IRA member Raymond McCartney.
Hosted IRA linked Mitchell McLaughlin in parliament.
Spoke alongside IRA terrorist Martina Anderson.
Attended Sinn Fein dinner with IRA bomber Gerry Kelly.
Chaired Irish republican event with IRA bomber Brendan MacFarlane.
Attended Bobby Sands commemoration honouring IRA terrorists.
Stood in minute’s silence for IRA gunmen shot dead by the SAS.
Refused to condemn the IRA in Sky News interview.
Refused to condemn the IRA on Question Time.
Refused to condemn IRA violence in BBC radio interview.
Signed EDM after IRA Poppy massacre massacre blaming Britain for the deaths.
Arrested while protesting in support of Brighton bomber’s co-defendants.
Lobbied government to improve visiting conditions for IRA killers.
Attended Irish republican event calling for armed conflict against Britain.
Hired suspected IRA man Ronan Bennett as a parliamentary assistant.
Hired another aide closely linked to several convicted IRA terrorists.
Heavily involved with IRA sympathising newspaper London Labour Briefing.
Put up £20,000 bail money for IRA terror suspect Roisin McAliskey.
Didn’t support IRA ceasefire.
Said Hamas and Hezbollah are his “friends“.
Called for Hamas to be removed from terror banned list.
Called Hamas “serious and hard-working“.
Attended wreath-laying at grave of Munich massacre terrorist.
Attended conference with Hamas and PFLP.
Photographed smiling with Hezbollah flag.
Attended rally with Hezbollah and Al-Muhajiroun.
Repeatedly shared platforms with PFLP plane hijacker.
Hired aide who praised Hamas’ “spirit of resistance“.
Accepted £20,000 for state TV channel of terror-sponsoring Iranian regime.
Opposed banning Britons from travelling to Syria to fight for ISIS.
Defended rights of fighters returning from Syria.
Said ISIS supporters should not be prosecuted.
Compared fighters returning from Syria to Nelson Mandela.
Said the death of Osama Bin Laden was a “tragedy“.
Wouldn’t sanction drone strike to kill ISIS leader.
Voted to allow ISIS fighters to return from Syria.
Opposed shoot to kill.
Attended event organised by terrorist sympathising IHRC.
Signed letter defending Lockerbie bombing suspects.
Wrote letter in support of conman accused of fundraising for ISIS.
Spoke of “friendship” with Mo Kozbar, who called for destruction of Israel.
Attended event with Abdullah Djaballah, who called for holy war against UK.
Called drone strikes against terrorists “obscene”.
Boasted about “opposing anti-terror legislation”.
Said laws banning jihadis from returning to Britain are “strange”.
Accepted £5,000 donation from terror supporter Ted Honderich.
Accepted £2,800 trip to Gaza from banned Islamist organisation Interpal.
Called Ibrahim Hewitt, extremist and chair of Interpal, a “very good friend”.
Accepted two more trips from the pro-Hamas group PRC.
Speaker at conference hosted by pro-Hamas group MEMO.
Met Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh several times.
Hosted meeting with Mousa Abu Maria of banned group Islamic Jihad.
Patron of Palestine Solidarity Campaign – marches attended by Hezbollah.
Compared Israel to ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah and al-Qaeda.
Said we should not make “value judgements” about Britons who fight for ISIS.
Received endorsement from Hamas.
Attended event with Islamic extremist Suliman Gani.
Chaired Stop the War, who praised “internationalism and solidarity” of ISIS.
Praised Raed Salah, who was jailed for inciting violence in Israel.
Signed letter defending jihadist advocacy group Cage.
Met Dyab Jahjah, who praised the killing of British soldiers.
Shared platform with representative of extremist cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.
Compared ISIS to US military in interview on Russia Today.
Opposed proscription of Hizb ut-Tahrir.
Attended conference which called on Iraqis to kill British soldiers.
Attended Al-Quds Day demonstration in support of destruction of Israel.
Supported Hamas and ISIS-linked Viva Palestina group.
Attended protest with Islamic extremist Moazzam Begg.
Made the “case for Iran” at event hosted by Khomeinist group.
Photographed smiling with Azzam Tamimi, who backed suicide bombings.
Photographed with Abdel Atwan, who sympathised with attacks on US troops.
Said Hamas should “have tea with the Queen”.
Attended ‘Meet the Resistance’ event with Hezbollah MP Hussein El Haj.
Attended event with Haifa Zangana, who praised Palestinian “mujahideen”.
Defended the infamous anti-Semitic Hamas supporter Stephen Sizer.
Attended event with pro-Hamas and Hezbollah group Naturei Karta.
Backed Holocaust denying anti-Zionist extremist Paul Eisen.
Photographed with Abdul Raoof Al Shayeb, later jailed for terror offences.
Mocked “anti-terror hysteria” while opposing powers for security services.
Named on speakers list for conference with Hamas sympathiser Ismail Patel.
Criticised drone strike that killed Jihadi John.
Said the 7/7 bombers had been denied “hope and opportunity”.
Said 9/11 was “manipulated” to make it look like bin Laden was responsible.
Failed to unequivocally condemn the 9/11 attacks.
Called Columbian terror group M-19 “comrades”.
Blamed beheading of Alan Henning on Britain.
Gave speech in support of Gaddafi regime.
Signed EDM spinning for Slobodan Milosevic.
Blamed Tunisia terror attack on “austerity”.
Voted against banning support for the IRA.
Voted against the Prevention of Terrorism Act three times during the Troubles.
Voted against emergency counter-terror laws after 9/11.
Voted against stricter punishments for being a member of a terror group.
Voted against criminalising the encouragement of terrorism.
Voted against banning al-Qaeda.
Voted against outlawing the glorification of terror.
Voted against control orders.
Voted against increased funding for the security services to combat terrorism.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

you got cited sources for this list?

otherwise it’s a bit pointless

 

[Trooper]

I'll probably vote Lib Dems this time. I've always voted Labour before, except for the times I didn't vote at all. It looks like they might have a pretty good chance of winning where I am and the PPC is good looking which means she's a good person.

 

[Tom]

Are you referring to the Lib Dems potentially striking a coalition deal with the Conservatives like in 2010? If so, I'd say that's now incredibly unlikely as their two visions on Brexit could not be more different; in my eyes, a Labour-Liberal Democrat coalition looks far more likely.

But if that's not what you mean, I apologise for misinterpreting you.

I'm not - in the scenario I present, they would still indirectly install the Tories as a result of splitting the anti Brexit vote. Their electoral tactics would facilitate Brexit.

 

[D4n]

I'm not - in the scenario I present, they would still indirectly install the Tories as a result of splitting the anti Brexit vote. Their electoral tactics would facilitate Brexit.

First Past the Post is a terrible, terrible electoral system for this very reason. It forces tactical voting and a two party system, especially frustrating when (as is currently the case) much of the electorate actively dislikes *both* main party leaders.

 

[speedy]

Today I received a second letter from the Tories, only party who have contacted me so far. Neither letter had any Tory policy - they consisted entirely of "It's between the SNP and the Tories so vote Tory to get Brexit done and keep Scotland in the UK"

It's a sign of weakness when you can only win votes by putting down someone else!

 

[rob666]

Every party puts the others down.
Always have, always will.
Going right back to my old faves Heath and Wilson...used to quietly rip hell out of each other behind a thin veil of politeness.

 

[Thameslink Rail]

And we have a new speaker:
BBC News - Sir Lindsay Hoyle elected new Commons Speaker
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50293505

 

[Matt N]

To be fair to the Lib Dems, I've been told that they have stood down their candidate in my constituency in order to aid Labour votes, so they clearly don't want to split the Remain vote.

My dad, who doesn't really follow politics too much and has admitted he doesn't really know who he'd vote for, has said to me that because I seem more interested in politics than he is, he will effectively vote on my behalf. I was originally going to ask him to vote for the Liberal Democrats, but I'm thinking Labour now that they aren't contesting our seat. I like quite a few of Labour's policies, and they were also the recommended tactical vote in our constituency to keep the Conservatives out of power.

 

[rob666]

Nice one dad.
Ten out of ten.

 

[bluesonichd]

Labour who don’t know if they at Arthur or Martha, leave or remain
If by any slim chance they get in will be a small small majority
Then what. Negotiate “another” deal with the EU , I’m sure they will love that
Then try and get it through parliament
Fat chance of that happening
Britain stuck in EU Brexit limbo for eternity
Least with Boris there is a credible plan

 

[speedy]

Least with Boris there is a credible plan

A credible plan like "We're leaving on the 31st October, no ifs no buts"? Haha.

 

[Stuie]

Britain stuck in EU Brexit limbo for eternity
Least with Boris there is a credible plan

Yep... that’s why we’re having a third election when we should have only had one.

 

[Rick]

Labour who don’t know if they at Arthur or Martha, leave or remain

Almost as if there are some nuances in the whole thing. Almost as if they didn't buy into 'Brexit means Brexit' and figured Brexit could mean one of about 20,000 different things, with hugely different outcomes.

If by any slim chance they get in will be a small small majority

Quite possibly.

Then what. Negotiate “another” deal with the EU , I’m sure they will love that

It's a deal that the EU would prefer on every level, surely. It removes so many of the complexities.

Then try and get it through parliament
Fat chance of that happening

If it's going through parliament subject to approval via a referendum, I suspect a minority Labour government could achieve that, as it would more likely have the backing of the SNP and potentially the Lib Dems.

Britain stuck in EU Brexit limbo for eternity

That could be the case with all sorts of scenarios, surely. The very idea that the withdrawal treaty provides any sort of certainty past the transition period is laughable,.

Least with Boris there is a credible plan

Where, I must have missed it?

 

[Benzin]

Why is it so difficult to understand Labour's plan?

Go get a deal from EU.

Offer the deal or Remain option back to the public.

Implement that result.


Meanwhile.......

Farage gets to continue moaning and groaning earning his MEP pay (not MP though, because it's not as lucrative and requires actual work).

Boris gets to find a ditch like he promised.

JRM returns to Dickensian times.

 

[Rick]

Why is it so difficult to understand Labour's plan?

I think primarily because of the reasons you have seen in this thread, there aren't enough pragmatists around, it's all about purism. The topic is such that the assumption from those against what is quite a sensible approach is a hybrid of the following;

• You should have picked your side by now, like your football team allegiance
• The decision should be ideological, not one made by combing over the facts
• There is no nuance - Leave is Leave, Remain is Remain - there's no middle ground so you should know
• Changing your mind is weak
• There isn't a neat three word tagline to explain it, so it must suck

"He can't even tell us which way he would vote in his second referendum" seems to be straight out of the Cummings Little book of Nonsense. I scratch my head a little bit each time someone trots the line out.

Person A: Are you going to put an offer on in on that house?
Person B: We haven't done a viewing yet
Person A: YOU CAN'T EVEN TELL ME IF YOU'RE GOING TO PUT AN OFFER IN!

Defending Jeremy Corbyn makes my head hurt. If the Tory campaign is as dreadful throughout as it has been thus far, hopefully I can desist.

 

[Lurker]

Rees-mogg slip up accusing victims who followed fire fighters instructions as lacking common sense

Failure, nay refusal to publish the report from the inquiry into russian interference in elections.

Gove suggests the extension can't be extended, which is flat out wrong if compared with the withdrawal agreement. Potential Brexit limbo for eternity while we try to actually make a deal of some kind.

Conservative press office doctored footage of a labour interview with Starmer, to crease a false narrative that he was unable to answer a question about labours brexit plan, despite the fact he gave a clear and lengthy answer in the undoctored clip

Universal credit adverts whipped up by the Department for Work and Pensions are criticised ( £225,000 wasted) as they falsely said that universal credit will get you into work faster.

Report from Dispatches that under the American Trade Deal being negotiated by the Conservatives the cost of drugs sold to the UK could rise by upto £500million per week.

Pledge of 200,000 starter homes in the previous elections shown to be false, with 0 homes built under that policy since 2014 (as the legislation was never put through parliment).

It's certainly a good start to an election.

 

[Benzin]

Yeah but Diane Abbot doesn't understand numbers so Labour are much worse