[The Smiler] Construction Updates / Ride Speculation Part 2 *SPOILER FREE*

JAMMYD778 said:

I highly doubt that a piece will need to be re-fabricated and lowered. It was certainly running fast enough a few weeks ago. If a train did stall it's most likely a case of just tweaking the number of trim fins for the right speed.

(Although, anything is possible with this ride)

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There were clearly issues with the pacing. It was flying around, something they clearly were not happy about, so then they had it running differently and what has happened since? It's barely made it round (on a calm day), obviously stalled on a windy one, and the initial speed it was running at was venomous when it did run the course fine - something I thought must have pushed it's tolerance to the limit.

I find this actually rather easy to believe, but we will see obviously. That's a weird old rumour to start circulating that is, especially when there are already plenty of reasons to chose from.

Borrissey said:

What is upsetting me about this project is that this is John Wardley's last rollercoaster. I don't want people to remember it as a failure but it looks like, at least in the enthusiast community, it will be.

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Not a chance. Once this opens it will be lauded on the global stage, if anything, it's a bit of advanced karma paying off all the praise it's about to get when opened.

What is more, no publicity is bad publicity, and whilst this is causing havoc for Alton Towers, awareness of it is growing. The enthusiast community are losing their "buzz" about it, but the public as a whole, (not starting that debate again lol!) wont have likely followed it with such obsession - to them, this is creating news.

I also know this is happening because family/non coaster enthusiasts - in fact, even some anti-coaster folk (lol) are keeping me up to speed about all its goings on.

This has captured peoples attention, everyone in Britain LOVES an epic fail. Far more so than if it had opened without a hitch.

The irony of this, bar for the initial poor opening judgements of the last few days, is it is actually creating MORE interest and focus on it than if it had opened on time.

TheMan said:

Borrissey said:

What is upsetting me about this project is that this is John Wardley's last rollercoaster. I don't want people to remember it as a failure but it looks like, at least in the enthusiast community, it will be.

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Not a chance. Once this opens it will be lauded on the global stage, if anything, it's a bit of advanced karma paying off all the praise it's about to get when opened.

What is more, no publicity is bad publicity, and whilst this is causing havoc for Alton Towers, awareness of it is growing. The enthusiast community are losing their "buzz" about it, but the public as a whole, (not starting that debate again lol!) wont have likely followed it with such obsession - to them, this is creating news.

I also know this is happening because family/non coaster enthusiasts - in fact, even some anti-coaster folk (lol) are keeping me up to speed about all its goings on.

This has captured peoples attention, everyone in Britain LOVES an epic fail. Far more so than if it had opened without a hitch.

The irony of this, bar for the initial poor opening judgements of the last few days, is it is actually creating MORE interest and focus on it than if it had opened on time.

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Interesting how these things work. You would have thought that when rumours are flying about basically saying that in its current state the ride is unsafe, people would be put off, but it always seems to go the other way.

Cheers for putting my over-hyped mind at rest.

Borrissey said:

Interesting how these things work. You would have thought that when rumours are flying about basically saying that in its current state the ride is unsafe, people would be put off, but it always seems to go the other way.

Cheers for putting my over-hyped mind at rest.

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Marketing/publicity is quite easy to adapt to most things. The principles are the same really. Also of course, we aren't dealing with a kiddies ride here, so those who were willing to ride a 14 inversion coaster of this nature wont be too worried - and again, especially amongst kids I'd imagine, it will add that little bit of extra spice to riding it. The bravado that is inevitable.

Also, I don't think it is coming across as dangerous/unsafe, it's coming across as unreliable and broken lol!

Think about what THORPE did with Swarm, deliberate tried to make it look more dangerous with the dummy stunt etc. Also let's not forget Maverick had to be re-profiled as have a few others down the years, it's not actually that uncommon, especially when you are pushing the envelopes of creativity. Maverick is now held in very high esteem, and few people remember or even know about it.

It's not that wild a speculative rumour really, it's rather commonplace by all accounts.

It's just we hold Alton Towers under the microscope, and it's not that common over here for a ride re-profile to happen on such a massively anticipated coaster.

If they had to lower an inversion, it'd require more than one new piece. Besides, one stall isn't enough to make them re build a section, they'll just have to tweak the wheels, trims and lift speeds. Plus when guests are on it and it's bedded in, it will run faster.

Blaze said:

If they had to lower an inversion, it'd require more than one new piece. Besides, one stall isn't enough to make them re build a section, they'll just have to tweak the wheels, trims and lift speeds. Plus when guests are on it and it's bedded in, it will run faster.

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Not necessarily it wouldn't if it just involved straightening it out a bit.

I'm not saying this is true by any means, but this isn't exactly unheard of.

There is only so much tweaking you can do, if the flow of the track isn't right the wheels/trim balance will not correct it. As they say in the production world "you can't polish a turd". If it isn't within the tolerance parameters then it wont work.

There has to be a wide amount of variables it can tolerate. Weather/weight (which can vary hugely), wheels wearing in, all sorts - if it cannot operate safely at both extremes, and they are extremes on a coaster as compact as this (which those runs we watched suggest is questionable at least), then I'd imagine it becomes quite likely.

World's most compact coaster, world's most inversions, on top of a hill, in our ludicrous weather, and one day may have a couple of people on it, another be rammed full of fuller framed individuals.

That is A LOT for them to get right tolerance wise - that is not normal wheel/trim balance engineering.

This ride really pushed the envelope of what is possible.

The first video it was running very fast and still deemed safe for people to ride. Why did they need to meddle?

Blaze said:

The first video it was running very fast and still deemed safe for people to ride. Why did they need to meddle?

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I thought that, but that was no one on it virtually, I think that was about as fast as it could get - if that had extra weight carrying it round... whilst I WANT A GO NOW, I am not convinced it would be H&S viable.

Saying that, you used to be able to re-ride Nemmy over & over and H&S wont let you now due to G-Forces, so they must have much more stringent rules.

Come on dude, that thing was mullering that track ;D - and we know it.

No one is enforcing re-ride policies on the park aside from themselves. If they're saying it's coming from the Health and Safety Executive they are wrong.

It's staggering how health and safety is used by so many people to blame things, including companies themselves. The fact is this ride is not ready and its queue lines are not in a position to yet hold thousands of people.

Tom said:

No one is enforcing re-ride policies on the park aside from themselves. If they're saying it's coming from the Health and Safety Executive they are wrong.

It's staggering how health and safety is used by so many people to blame things, including companies themselves. The fact is this ride is not ready and its queue lines are not in a position to yet hold thousands of people.

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That is something I have heard now multiple times including from staff yes. What makes you so certain that it isn't true? H&S can be over the top, but do play an essential role of course overall.

Serious question Tom, how do you know?

Can I ask what the maximum re ride is on Nemesis? I've never heard of this before.. I just thought you had to stop running back round onto the single rider queue when you were too dizzy to stand up?

Devilgirl said:

Can I ask what the maximum re ride is on Nemesis? I've never heard of this before.. I just thought you had to stop running back round onto the single rider queue when you were too dizzy to stand up?

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I mean re-ride as in, stay on, like you used to be able to.

I get mixed up whether it was 9 or 12 that I managed without getting off - one of the two. Then I gave myself a nose bleed so had to get off lol! ;D

Most you had to do was change seats if someone wanted front/back etc - which was fair enough.

Towers have had a very strict policy on re-rides for as long as I can remember. I've never seen anyone having re-rides without getting off aside from at the very end of the day when there's no one left in the queue and the rides have closed, and even then it only tends to be RMT, Rapids, and Duel.

Ian said:

Towers have had a very strict policy on re-rides for as long as I can remember. I've never seen anyone having re-rides without getting off aside from at the very end of the day when there's no one left in the queue and the rides have closed, and even then it only tends to be RMT, Rapids, and Duel.

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It was a fair while ago they changed it Ian. They definitely used to do it though. In fact it used to be very common across all parks. Missile at AA was another great one to sit on for the last half hour 45 mins of the day and just go round and round on!

;D

EDIT:
There MUST be others here who remember the days of re-rides?!

TheMan said:

Tom said:

No one is enforcing re-ride policies on the park aside from themselves. If they're saying it's coming from the Health and Safety Executive they are wrong.

It's staggering how health and safety is used by so many people to blame things, including companies themselves. The fact is this ride is not ready and its queue lines are not in a position to yet hold thousands of people.

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That is something I have heard now multiple times including from staff yes. What makes you so certain that it isn't true? H&S can be over the top, but do play an essential role of course overall.

Serious question Tom, how do you know?

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There is no law or regulation regarding time on rollercoasters. If Alton Towers have their own policy then they are entitled to it. If it comes from their own safety advisers then they are entitled to do that. However when people say "we can't, it's health and safety" they are misleading people into saying that the park have the rules imposed upon them from the authorities.

Tom said:

There is no law or regulation regarding time on rollercoasters. If Alton Towers have their own policy then they are entitled to it. If it comes from their own safety advisers then they are entitled to do that. However when people say "we can't, it's health and safety" they are misleading people into saying that the park have the rules imposed upon them from the authorities.

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How do you know though Tom? That is the point I am making. With respect, I can say you are wrong without providing an answer as to how I know (because I don't).

I'm not doubting you, but it is easier you will understand to believe staff, and especially when the parks I visited also seemed to stop doing it around the same sort of time, & to my knowledge I am not aware of any parks that allow for constant re-rides during quiet periods anymore (on their intense rides).

I very much miss re-rides, so how is you know it's the choice of Towers?

TheMan said:

Tom said:

There is no law or regulation regarding time on rollercoasters. If Alton Towers have their own policy then they are entitled to it. If it comes from their own safety advisers then they are entitled to do that. However when people say "we can't, it's health and safety" they are misleading people into saying that the park have the rules imposed upon them from the authorities.

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How do you know though Tom? That is the point I am making. With respect, I can say you are wrong without providing an answer as to how I know (because I don't).

I'm not doubting you, but it is easier you will understand to believe staff, and especially when the parks I visited also seemed to stop doing it around the same sort of time, & to my knowledge I am not aware of any parks that allow for constant re-rides during quiet periods anymore (on their intense rides).

I very much miss re-rides, so how is you know it's the choice of Towers?

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There is no law or regulation which exists in the United Kingdom. I cannot prove this to you other than providing you with a list of every law and regulation that exists within this country, you read through each one and note that there is no reference of rollercoaster limits.

How do you propose that charity and record-breaking attempts take place. They don't have to submit a notification to the police and no one taking part signs a waiver.

As ride staff you are trained to say that it's H&S due to 'excessive forces' but it is no secret that it is a form of queue management

Tom said:

How do you propose that charity and record-breaking attempts take place. They don't have to submit a notification to the police and no one taking part signs a waiver.

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That is a fair point.

EuroSatch said:

As ride staff you are trained to say that it's H&S due to 'excessive forces' but it is no secret that it is a form of queue management

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Seems ridiculous on a day when a train goes out with 4 people on it.

That is a bit off topic, not that there is much "on topic" to discuss right now. Anyway, point proven, I'd imagine if anyone knows to contrary they will pipe up at some point.

Saying that, there will always be one idiot who wont take no for an answer if you start doing it, especially nowadays, it was par for the course back then and there was an etiquette people followed on the whole. I wouldn't be convinced that would happen now in fairness, as annoying as it is.

It seems fairly obvious to me that it's financially motivated. Trains are going round less frequently on dead days etc.

I'm sure that in America they feel that someone might sue them for not letting them get off the ride or something.

I think the health and safety discussion is relevant to the topic really because no end of people have falsely blamed "H&S" for The Smiler not opening.

At Thorpe Park on opening day this year I was actively encouraged by ride staff on a lot of rides to stay on and see how many re-rides I can handle.

Probably a mix of the Thorpe Park staff being Thorpe Park staff (I was asked if I would eat s**t to save my life by one particular ride host) and the park being absolutely dead.

Anyway, hugely disappointed by The Smiler being closed all bank holiday and still havent got a solid date. Really begs the question why they announced the opening date in the first place. I really do wonder if we will get some sort of explaination!