2019 General Election Poll and Discussion

[speedy]

lets forget that labour have turned into a racist cult

It sure is weird that Conservative voters suddenly care deeply about the Jewish community. Especially as they blatantly disregard Islamophobia, or concerns from migrants, or (as seen here) disabled people. Could it be that Conservatives aren't actually bothered about antisemitism, and are using the Jewish as a stick to bash Labour with?

 

[bluesonichd]

using the Jewish as a stick to bash Labour with?

 

[speedy]

EDIT

Sorry, @bluesonichd my post was a bit harsher than it should have been, as I missed the first part of "Forget about Labour's anti Semitism, look at what one Conservatory candidate thinks about the disabled" in RoyJess's post.

Nobody should forget anything. I still stand by my point though that problems exist across parties. Antisemitism in the Labour party is not an adequate response to the Tories disregarding the disabled. Just as Islamophobia existing in the Conservative party doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye to antisemitism in the Labour party.

 

[bluesonichd]

That's what your doing. You've shown disregard for plenty of issues brought up in this thread. And now all you can reply with when the concerns of disabled people are brought up is "but, but, antisemitism!"

Now I'm not saying antisemitism isn't important. But these issues exist across parties. You don't seem to accept that. Antisemitism is one issue of many in this general election.

yes there are many many things in this election that effect many people and one does not trump the other.
the sun doesnt shine out of the conservatives arses, they have there own issues, many issues, but their arse smells a lot sweeter than Labours

so while I'm on it lets bash why young people are so gullible

 

[speedy]

Please see my edited post above.

yes there are many many things in this election that effect many people and one does not trump the other.
the sun doesnt shine out of the conservatives arses, they have there own issues, many issues, but their arse smells a lot sweeter than Labours

so while I'm on it lets bash why young people are so gullible

That's very much a matter of opinion. And I disagree, though I think we've been over this enough.

This analysis isn't entirely true, as much of the spending will be funded by increased taxation. I'm 20, a university student and I will likely earn enough as an engineer that a good chunk of that will be taken away as tax. Am I bitter? No. I've received more help than most from the NHS and my school. I appreciate that these services are funded by tax, and I'm happy to contribute.

Do you think I'm gullible?

(Worth adding that borrowing remained largely stable until the financial crisis, however under the Conservatives it has continued to rise)

 

[bluesonichd]

@RoyJess reading more into the comment disabled people should be paid less

was taken from
The article was written by Rosa Monckton, who argued her daughter, who has Down's Syndrome, wanted to work but "employers are not charities, and it is difficult for them to employ people if their output amounts to a loss".

She argued for a "therapeutic exemption" from the minimum wage so people with learning disabilities could benefit from work while employers did not have to pay them the minimum wage.

The author, who runs a disabilities charity, also said her daughter has no understanding of money but "they want to work so as to have a fulfilling and purposeful life".
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/03/the-minimum-wage-denies-my-daughter-the-dignity-of-a-paid-job/

 

[speedy]

@RoyJess reading more into the comment disabled people should be paid less

was taken from
The article was written by Rosa Monckton, who argued her daughter, who has Down's Syndrome, wanted to work but "employers are not charities, and it is difficult for them to employ people if their output amounts to a loss".

She argued for a "therapeutic exemption" from the minimum wage so people with learning disabilities could benefit from work while employers did not have to pay them the minimum wage.

The author, who runs a disabilities charity, also said her daughter has no understanding of money but "they want to work so as to have a fulfilling and purposeful life".
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/03/the-minimum-wage-denies-my-daughter-the-dignity-of-a-paid-job/

I don't think that's a good idea. There are already volunteer roles that disabled people can do.

I'm disabled. Being partially sighted, there are some things at work that I don't do, or do more slowly. Do I deserve the minimum wage? How do you decide who should be paid the adults minimum wage and who doesn't deserve it? It's a dangerous road to go down.

 

[bluesonichd]

Do you think I'm gullible?

I hope you get your job and are happy with the tax taken
hope all those who dont get a good job are happy trying to survive

personally by then I'll be sat in a nursing home, dribbling into my soup cup and hopefully using your tax to pay for it

 

[bluesonichd]

I don't think that's a good idea. There are already volunteer roles that disabled people can do.

I'm disabled. Being partially sighted, there are some things at work that I don't do, or do more slowly. How do you decide who should be paid the adults minimum wage and who doesn't deserve it? It's a dangerous road to go down.

something we agree on

 

[Dave]

I hope you get your job and are happy with the tax taken
hope all those who dont get a good job are happy trying to survive

personally by then I'll be sat in a nursing home, dribbling into my soup cup and hopefully using your tax to pay for it

Your voting Tory yet think there will be a socially funded care package for you when you get older...... okaaaaaay

yes there are many many things in this election that effect many people and one does not trump the other.
the sun doesnt shine out of the conservatives arses, they have there own issues, many issues, but their arse smells a lot sweeter than Labours

so while I'm on it lets bash why young people are so gullible

I mean the newspaper ignores the fact that quite a few countries with similar or worse economies have spending higher than Corbyn is suggesting. I think it might be the older people suffering from a little brain washing here....

 

[Rick]

Less than a week to go and I feel like I've switched off. The debate everywhere has got pretty boring and all "Yeah but what about..." - which is typically the weakest form of argument and full of rhetoric, repeating of headlines and dead cats.

I think that in part is fuelled because elections should be peak intensity, after a fairly dull period, but with Brexit, we've seen so many deadlines, cliff edges and periods of 'maximum' politics, this doesn't feel like an event somehow, despite its huge consequences for the country and the continent.

It is somewhat amazing how the conversations taking place aren't reflecting that there are two black & white visions for the future of the country - they couldn't be any more different, but they remain way down the news agenda whilst people talk about anti-semitism and Islamaphobia in parties, Boris' appetite for talking to Andrew Neil or indeed, blocks of ice. Not for a moment suggesting that anti-semitism and Islamaphobia aren't important - of course they are. That said, they should be issues discussed as part of the wider debate. A cynic might suggest that it's being kept at the forefront so that things like the detail of Brexit, border checks, social care and the health service are not ...

The Tories did everything they could to make this the Brexit election, I think they have done so in some ways - largely by not having a policy on Brexit, just a slogan that doesn't really mean anything, that can't be picked apart. Labour have tried to make it about anything other than Brexit and although they have got some traction on that, it hasn't cut through in the same way that it did in 2017.

Turnout will be important, it'll be interesting to see how that will affect things. Suspect it could be quite low.

My hope - a hung parliament. Compromise and reflection would not be a bad thing.
My prediction - I think Labour will do better than many people think, but we'll end up with a relatively small Tory majority, but significant enough to get the Brexit deal through. Then, fairly quickly the Tory infighting will reignite into crisis when it has to be decided what the future relationship with Europe looks like. They'll become quite unpopular quite quickly, like they did after 1992 - leading to some sort of change and eventual reset, like 1997.

 

[bluesonichd]

Your voting Tory yet think there will be a socially funded care package for you when you get older...... okaaaaaay



I mean the newspaper ignores the fact that quite a few countries with similar or worse economies have spending higher than Corbyn is suggesting. I think it might be the older people suffering from a little brain washing here....

Maybe that’s the problem I’m old and have already lost the plot.
Only a few more days till it’s over then can find something else to get my knickers in a twist about

 

[speedy]

Only a few more days till it’s over then can find something else to get my knickers in a twist about

That's if a government gets formed! And then we have the joys of sorting out Brexit (or no Brexit).

 

[GaryH]

I've finally decided which way to vote. I'm not going to vote for Boris, quite frankly his TV and raido interviews from him and his "team" have been shocking, and the NHS sell off worries me in the leaked documents.

Not voting for Corbyn as I can't stand the bloke or his policies and genuinely fear more for the country than I would under the Tory's with all the freebies he is promising.

So I think for the first time ever, I will vote Lib Dem. While they have no chance of getting in to power, they may get more seats in the government and be able to keep both Labour and Conservatives under some sort of balance.

 

[Rick]

@GaryH Were you pro-Brexit? (apologies if mistaking you with someone else).

This is the first time I've seen the PM rattled during the campaign. The questions were such that he couldn't just use his slogans (although they were used quite heavily). Talking about specific issues is so much harder than talking about things in the round and it shows.

 

[GaryH]

@GaryH Were you pro-Brexit? (apologies if mistaking you with someone else).

No, not mistaken, you are right. I know they want to revoke Article 50, but, they wont get in, so I dont need to worry about that. I just cant bring myself to vote for the other two!

 

[Lurker]

No, not mistaken, you are right. I know they want to revoke Article 50, but, they wont get in, so I dont need to worry about that. I just cant bring myself to vote for the other two!

To be fair, they don't want to revoke article 50 flat out, they want to renegotiate the deal and then put that deal to the people.

Glad you found a position you are comfortable with though, happy voting!

 

[Rick]

To be fair, they don't want to revoke article 50 flat out, they want to renegotiate the deal and then put that deal to the people.

In the event of a majority, the Lib Dem policy is to revoke, the Labour policy is as you describe.

 

[Plastic Person]

@GaryH Were you pro-Brexit? (apologies if mistaking you with someone else).

This is the first time I've seen the PM rattled during the campaign. The questions were such that he couldn't just use his slogans (although they were used quite heavily). Talking about specific issues is so much harder than talking about things in the round and it shows.

I'm doing my best to maintain a @Rick level sense of pragmatism during this election campaign, but wow, imagine actually voting for this bloke.

 

[Lurker]

In the event of a majority, the Lib Dem policy is to revoke, the Labour policy is as you describe.

Ah poo, misread the first post. Thought Gary had settled on Labour.

Fair enough! My mistake.

It's going to be a very interesting election