Coronavirus

[GaryH]

I think forcing children to have the vaccine is worrying. We don’t know the long term effects of these vaccines yet and won’t know for at least 10 years particularly in less developed bodies. Only now we are learning about heart swelling in young people having the vaccine.

 

[Alsty]

Where was the suggestion it would be forced?

 

[Rob]

I think forcing children to have the vaccine is worrying. We don’t know the long term effects of these vaccines yet and won’t know for at least 10 years particularly in less developed bodies. Only now we are learning about heart swelling in young people having the vaccine.

I'm not doubting this is true but it would be useful to post a source when making such a claim, as this has been far from mainstream news (as far as I am aware).

 

[Dave]

I think forcing children to have the vaccine is worrying. We don’t know the long term effects of these vaccines yet and won’t know for at least 10 years particularly in less developed bodies. Only now we are learning about heart swelling in young people having the vaccine.

No one is forcing anything.

At the moment there isn’t a causal link established, it’s being investigated. That said there isn’t a single medical intervention without small risks.

We give kids paracetamol (via calpol), in some people paracetamol even at prescribed doses can cause liver failure. Ibrupofen can cause stomach problems and kidney failure.

It’s a question of risk v benefit which is why the Scientists haven’t yet recommended vaccinating children (the existing child vaccines such as polio have very small risks attached but the risk of polio is far greater, I think the thing that is putting scientists off recommending vaccination is in general children are not harmed by Covid unlike the other childhood diseases we vaccinate against), my guess is they will recommend vaccinating “at risk” children but not all children but the government might overrule this.

 

[monkeyboy]

Where was the suggestion it would be forced?

They are not saying that yet, but I’m sure by September they will be offered.
There is very small risk to under 18s if the get covid. Yes the could possibly pass it on but if all adults are vaccinated to a % why do it. Risk v benefits again. I wouldn’t be happy to give my young one the jab as I don’t think we know any long term implications that we haven’t seen yet with such a new drug.


More concerning is the jab for jobs ie employers not recruiting if you don’t have the jab.

Anyone else a little freaked out by a government making the care home industry jabs compulsory?
Forcing someone to have a jab sounds, mmmmm


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[Craig]

They are not saying that yet, but I’m sure by September they will be offered.

Offered is very different to being forced to take the vaccine. That's the difference

More concerning is the jab for jobs ie employers not recruiting if you don’t have the jab.

Anyone else a little freaked out by a government making the care home industry jabs compulsory?
Forcing someone to have a jab sounds, mmmmm

If I take a job as say a forklift driver, I am required to do training to minimise the risk to myself or others. If work with children, I require background checks to minimise the risk to those children.

If I work in the care home industry, requiring a vaccine to protect my residents is a measured response to the harm the virus can, and indeed has caused them in this past year. Employment in the care sector is not a right, and there are alternative options of employment if someone did not want to have a vaccination. That sounds harsh, but consider this - why should one employee's personal belief to not have a vaccination potentially put tens of people in one care home at a substantially increased risk?

 

[jon81uk]

More concerning is the jab for jobs ie employers not recruiting if you don’t have the jab.

Anyone else a little freaked out by a government making the care home industry jabs compulsory?

For that industry it makes sense I think. Pretty sure there are other jobs where vaccinations are required already?

 

[Dave]

For that industry it makes sense I think. Pretty sure there are other jobs where vaccinations are required already?

If you work in a lot of clinical roles in a hospital you are required to have hep B vaccine (not just doctors). I wasn’t even allowed to start university unless I had the hep B vaccine.

 

[monkeyboy]

Offered is very different to being forced to take the vaccine. That's the difference



If I take a job as say a forklift driver, I am required to do training to minimise the risk to myself or others. If work with children, I require background checks to minimise the risk to those children.

If I work in the care home industry, requiring a vaccine to protect my residents is a measured response to the harm the virus can, and indeed has caused them in this past year. Employment in the care sector is not a right, and there are alternative options of employment if someone did not want to have a vaccination. That sounds harsh, but consider this - why should one employee's personal belief to not have a vaccination potentially put tens of people in one care home at a substantially increased risk?

But your argument about the care home surely applied to kids in school, if they have been proven to spread and seen as a risk by the government then your argument would mean that kids would not be allowed in school to get an education.

As a human living in a free country everyone HAS the right not to take the vaccine, right or wrong you have a right. Take that away and you might as well live in China.

How can you discriminate the population who don’t want to have it, you can’t, not yet but that’s where we are blindly heading.

Yes I know the blokes a nob but this is the way we are going, if you think this is ok then you are wrong

https://www.mylondon.news/news/uk-world-news/pimlico-plumbers-boss-charlie-mullins-20838839


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[Alsty]

It's hardly the same. Craig even said those who don't want to be vaccinated could take employment in other sectors where there is no such requirement.

They wouldn't make it a condition of being schooled because there is no alternative choice.

 

[Craig]

But your argument about the care home surely applied to kids in school, if they have been proven to spread and seen as a risk by the government then your argument would mean that kids would not be allowed in school to get an education.

As a human living in a free country everyone HAS the right not to take the vaccine, right or wrong you have a right. Take that away and you might as well live in China.

How can you discriminate the population who don’t want to have it, you can’t, not yet but that’s where we are blindly heading.

Yes I know the blokes a nob but this is the way we are going, if you think this is ok then you are wrong

https://www.mylondon.news/news/uk-world-news/pimlico-plumbers-boss-charlie-mullins-20838839


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Nope, completely different situation, I'm not talking about having a vaccine to reduce transmission nationwide, just to those who interact with the vulnerable in a care home. Every resident in a care home is in there because they are frail and vulnerable. The care givers in those homes have very close, regular contact with those very residents in order to support them. The vaccines minimise the risk of transmission during that close regular contact. A vaccination should be seen as being just as essential as PPE to those caregivers. There's plenty of alternative employment if they choose to not have the vaccination elsewhere where the risk to others is considerably lower.

When you're talking about schools, you're right in that infections can be seeded in them. But, most young people do not tend to be heavily affected by the virus, and indeed most of the general population do not either, hence why we have the vaccine being optional for everyone else.

Personally I wish everyone would just get the vaccine, if people choose not to do so then that's up them. However, despite not being a fan of Charlie Mullins, if individual businesses wish to impose a vaccine requirement for employment and its within the law, then they should be able to do so if they feel it is right for their business. Obviously providing that employee is able to get the vaccine under the current rules and no medical condition prevents them from doing so.

 

[monkeyboy]

It's hardly the same. Craig even said those who don't want to be vaccinated could take employment in other sectors where there is no such requirement.

They wouldn't make it a condition of being schooled because there is no alternative choice.

Stand up for you freedom! It’s nice to have such a compliant population. I will get them to fast track your covid passport!!!

Just confirm you are happy with no jab no job policy??

Let’s see what happens in September with the schools.


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[Craig]

Stand up for you freedom! It’s nice to have such a compliant population. I will get them to fast track your covid passport!!!

Just confirm you are happy with no jab no job policy??

Let’s see what happens in September with the schools.


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Cheers, dying to get myself away anyway . As I've already confirmed, if businesses want to impose a policy, then they can do so providing:

• It's within the law
• There's a reasoning given for why that is a requirement (i.e. they're working in close contact with others)
• Those employees have access to vaccines (i.e. at present under 25's can't get it)
• There's no medical reasoning for the employee not to have it

Obviously if people don't like that, then either as customers vote with your feet, or as employees find a job opportunity elsewhere.

 

[monkeyboy]

Cheers, dying to get myself away anyway . As I've already confirmed, if businesses want to impose a policy, then they can do so providing:

• It's within the law
• There's a reasoning given for why that is a requirement (i.e. they're working in close contact with others)
• Those employees have access to vaccines (i.e. at present under 25's can't get it)
• There's no medical reasoning for the employee not to have it

Obviously if people don't like that, then either as customers vote with your feet, or as employees find a job opportunity elsewhere.

Who said anything about a vaccine passport for abroad, I was thinking closer to home.

But if you do decide to get on a plane you might enjoy

China
Russia
North Korea

You and astly would fit in nicely with conformity

Anyways just busting yer balls and shaking the pop bottle all good!!


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[Alsty]

Stand up for you freedom! It’s nice to have such a compliant population. I will get them to fast track your covid passport!!!

I'll get them to fast track your tin foil hat.

I don't agree that everybody should be forced to get a vaccine, but those who choose not to shouldn't expect to be on a level pegging with those who have.

Getting a vaccine lowers your risk to yourself and wider society. Those who don't get a vaccine are therefore a higher risk and should expect to jump through more hoops (such as testing) to negate that risk to others to the same level.

Just confirm you are happy with no jab no job policy??

For jobs where not having the vaccine puts others at risk, totally.

 

[monkeyboy]

I'll get them to fast track your tin foil hat.

I don't agree that everybody should be forced to get a vaccine, but those who choose not to shouldn't expect to be on a level pegging with those who have.

Getting a vaccine lowers your risk to yourself and wider society. Those who don't get a vaccine are therefore a higher risk and should expect to jump through more hoops (such as testing) to negate that risk to others to the same level.


For jobs where not having the vaccine puts others at risk, totally.

For jobs that put others at risk?? Who decides that?

What about when you walk into a supermarket and the other member of the public hasn’t had theirs?
Aren’t they putting others at risk.

My issue is once you start the first law then it’s sooo easy to role out to things you are not even thinking about.

I’ve rolled myself up in tin foil but still waiting to go into the oven!


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[Dave]

Who said anything about a vaccine passport for abroad, I was thinking closer to home.

But if you do decide to get on a plane you might enjoy

China
Russia
North Korea

You and astly would fit in nicely with conformity

Anyways just busting yer balls and shaking the pop bottle all good!!


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You conform to things everyday, don’t pretend you have some idealistic independence from government regulation.

For example you can’t drive if you don’t have a license, have drunk alcohol, taken drugs, can’t read a number plate at 20 feet, have recently had a seizure or get caught speeding multiple times. Is the nation acting like sheep for following those regulations? No.

Life is full of rules and regulations, in the most part these are to protect society. The totalitarian regimes you quote control people for their own personal power, not to protect society as a whole.

When the government was shutting down parliament in 2019 that was a worry, vaccine policy is not.

 

[monkeyboy]

You conform to things everyday, don’t pretend you have some idealistic independence from government regulation.

For example you can’t drive if you don’t have a license, have drunk alcohol, taken drugs, can’t read a number plate at 20 feet, have recently had a seizure or get caught speeding multiple times. Is the nation acting like sheep for following those regulations? No.

Life is full of rules and regulations, in the most part these are to protect society. The totalitarian regimes you quote control people for their own personal power, not to protect society as a whole.

When the government was shutting down parliament in 2019 that was a worry, vaccine policy is not.

You can drive with your examples as you don’t need to prove that before you get in the car.
That’s choice, wrong choice as you will get locked up if caught.


The point is having to show proof of vaccine before gaining entry to a place or getting a job.

Would you be happy having to show you NHS QR code to get into a supermarket or a cinema or pub?
Is that acting like sheep or protecting society?


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[Thameslink Rail]

Would you be happy having to show you NHS QR code to get into a supermarket or a cinema or pub?
Is that acting like sheep or protecting society?

Protecting society
Honest question, if the government notice on the app that you have been to Alton Towers then what do they have to gain from that? Especially given that they would know that anyway using the device you sent that post on (even if you turned GPS off they could still work it out).
Yes for now it can be a hassle scanning the app and it sucks if you get told to self-isolate (actually given how much money you are entitled to if this happens it isn't too bad), what's far worse than ALL of this is if that virus is spread from you to someone vulnerable who may have not been able to have a vaccine possibly because they are at the edge of society and lack a mobile phone and an internet connection or possibly because they have a weak immune system.
This isn't some conspiracy by the government to rob us of our freedoms, this is serious business to keep everyone safe and until Covid is conquered (which hopefully won't be long), it is something we are going to have to put up with for the good of society.
(I hope I have got all my facts right)

 

[SirDossa]

Funny how a large number of things that so called conspiracy theorists were talking about last year appear to no longer be conspiracies though eh?

“The virus was man made in a lab in Wuhan”...

“Lockdown one will result in lockdown 2,3,4 etc”...

“Vaccine/Covid ID’s/Passports will be rolled out “...

“Children will be vaccinated”...

Yes,I’m aware that the things listed above aren’t exactly wild conspiracy theories but they are all things that were regularly dismissed throughout last year.

I’ll stop short of mentioning any of the 4G nonsense talk but things like “The Great Reset” and “Agenda 2030” are arguably no longer crazy conspiracy theories. They are openly discussed public initiatives backed by the most powerful people on the planet. Google them if you are short of some nighttime reading

Anyways,I’m off to read Klaus Schwab’s new book which is aptly titled “Covid-19 : The Great Reset”..whilst wearing my tin hat of course!