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Nemesis: Sub-Terra Discussion (**contains spoilers**)
- Thread starter Blizzard
- Start date
Squiggs
TS Team
I'm sure it's not my imagination, but it seemed to me that further modifications have been made to the maze section since my last visit (end of May, I think).
It seemed to me that two of the mesh panels have been removed from the first corridor of the maze, meaning the actors can now lunge out at random points, or (as one was doing today) pretty much hanging out into the corridor, forcing guests to stoop to get past.
It seemed to me that two of the mesh panels have been removed from the first corridor of the maze, meaning the actors can now lunge out at random points, or (as one was doing today) pretty much hanging out into the corridor, forcing guests to stoop to get past.
djtruefitt
TS Team
The two panels were removed not long after the ride re-opened. They certainly wernt there when it opened. But on my visit a week or two later they had been removed. They now also come out right towards the end of the maze, but I have no idea if these gaps in the walls were always there or if these are new as the actors never used to go that far in the maze.
djtruefitt
TS Team
I imagine it would look pretty rubbish with all the lights on inside. But I wouldnt mind seeing it.
I've seen N:ST in all the different versions, and it's came on so much since the beginning, and even more so since re-opening!
Actors now use the space fully, both in (& out) of the initial Lift sections, and the latter Lifts. By far the best lift to be in is number 2, as you get the added bonus of an actor focusing solely on your group.
I've seen the drop from all four sides, and I have to say, Tower 4 is by far the best. You can see everyone else drop, and I have noticed (although this may just be me) that the effects are very strong from this position.
As for the Maze section, this has been improved so much also. It used to be a fairly standard scare section, but now it's full of actors that truly know how to use the space to their advantage, in order to achieve the best scares possible. They now have full facial makeup in the form of fake 'blood' all around their chin & cheeks, & in the dark it's very effective.
I can't fault N:ST any more. Not one criticism....
Well, apart from Alton Towers need to replace the gate to the Fasttrack queue... Shouldn't slam it, hosts!
Actors now use the space fully, both in (& out) of the initial Lift sections, and the latter Lifts. By far the best lift to be in is number 2, as you get the added bonus of an actor focusing solely on your group.
I've seen the drop from all four sides, and I have to say, Tower 4 is by far the best. You can see everyone else drop, and I have noticed (although this may just be me) that the effects are very strong from this position.
As for the Maze section, this has been improved so much also. It used to be a fairly standard scare section, but now it's full of actors that truly know how to use the space to their advantage, in order to achieve the best scares possible. They now have full facial makeup in the form of fake 'blood' all around their chin & cheeks, & in the dark it's very effective.
I can't fault N:ST any more. Not one criticism....
Well, apart from Alton Towers need to replace the gate to the Fasttrack queue... Shouldn't slam it, hosts!
A
Anonymous
With the amount of cuts going on at the minute and money becoming tighter at every attraction next year could we say bye bye to the live actors at the end? I hope not because it really does add to the experience.. but then again it could potentially be a money saver unfortunatly! 
Tim
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Air / Blue Fire
I've been doing some thinking after visiting the park earlier this week and decided to conclude my Sub-Terra analysis from earlier this year.
Nightfall's in-depth Sub-Terra analysis
I’ve posted it in the original topic over at TTF and won’t be rewriting it over here. The first 2 parts are just too much spur of the moment pieces to rewrite them again several months later. However I’ll probably condense it down to a shortened review when the review section goes live.
^ But that’s not a reason to not to go over there and check it out when you have a few minutes
Nightfall's in-depth Sub-Terra analysis
I’ve posted it in the original topic over at TTF and won’t be rewriting it over here. The first 2 parts are just too much spur of the moment pieces to rewrite them again several months later. However I’ll probably condense it down to a shortened review when the review section goes live.
^ But that’s not a reason to not to go over there and check it out when you have a few minutes
John
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Steel Vengeance
Probably would have been quicker to copy and paste/quote yourself than to write an entirely new post explaining it
...especially since I'm going to reply here rather than TTF!
Great review there, I think the key differences between NST's pre show video and the one on Hex is that NST will be new to most people and the 'progress bar' means people can see it is a short video and are therefore more likely to pay attention to it. The crab is only an issue to us enthusiasts who think it looks wrong for the Nemesis creature, not to mention the whole crab in-joke...
I've always felt the ride should have be designed to hold you in the 'cave' before the main show. Clearly if you walk straight into the main room it must have been sat empty for a while before you got there, which means the ride is not operating to maximum capacity. I don't see any reason why this should be the case, so they should build waiting in the cave into the ride experience in some way. It would only have to be minor, like simulating a power loss or something similar to show the situation isn't fully under control.
I'm not sure I agree about overuse of effects, but I don't think I've been on it often enough to know exactly what the full sequence is even meant to be. Clearly there was far too little going on at first, but I'm still not convinced the effects are reliable enough - maybe they need to 'overuse' them to ensure that if one of them fails there are still enough left over to get a good ride out of it. My main issue remains that there isn't enough going on in the lower chamber - flashing lights doesn't really fit IMO.
Getting off the ride is so much better than it was, the old announcement telling you to get out while you were still firmly locked in was a bit rubbish, but the new timer is a lot more dramatic. Aside from that the exit lifts are still pretty much the same as before, but I don't think any major changes were really needed.
As for the maze, I agree that it isn't clear what's meant to be happening. I've never found it in the least bit scary, but I don't know what would have to be changed to improve it. I don't see the actors lasting long given the extremely staff-intensive nature of the attraction, in which case changes will be needed to avoid the ending feeling completely pointless.
As for selling fastrack at the entrance, the less said the better. I've made my views about that known elsewhere and see no need to repeat myself.
...especially since I'm going to reply here rather than TTF!
Great review there, I think the key differences between NST's pre show video and the one on Hex is that NST will be new to most people and the 'progress bar' means people can see it is a short video and are therefore more likely to pay attention to it. The crab is only an issue to us enthusiasts who think it looks wrong for the Nemesis creature, not to mention the whole crab in-joke...
I've always felt the ride should have be designed to hold you in the 'cave' before the main show. Clearly if you walk straight into the main room it must have been sat empty for a while before you got there, which means the ride is not operating to maximum capacity. I don't see any reason why this should be the case, so they should build waiting in the cave into the ride experience in some way. It would only have to be minor, like simulating a power loss or something similar to show the situation isn't fully under control.
I'm not sure I agree about overuse of effects, but I don't think I've been on it often enough to know exactly what the full sequence is even meant to be. Clearly there was far too little going on at first, but I'm still not convinced the effects are reliable enough - maybe they need to 'overuse' them to ensure that if one of them fails there are still enough left over to get a good ride out of it. My main issue remains that there isn't enough going on in the lower chamber - flashing lights doesn't really fit IMO.
Getting off the ride is so much better than it was, the old announcement telling you to get out while you were still firmly locked in was a bit rubbish, but the new timer is a lot more dramatic. Aside from that the exit lifts are still pretty much the same as before, but I don't think any major changes were really needed.
As for the maze, I agree that it isn't clear what's meant to be happening. I've never found it in the least bit scary, but I don't know what would have to be changed to improve it. I don't see the actors lasting long given the extremely staff-intensive nature of the attraction, in which case changes will be needed to avoid the ending feeling completely pointless.
As for selling fastrack at the entrance, the less said the better. I've made my views about that known elsewhere and see no need to repeat myself.
John
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Steel Vengeance
Even so, I'd rather split the waiting between the batching area and the cave - at the moment you spend quite a long time waiting for the video to start, so you could reduce this time by making people wait beyond the lift too. Alternatively, you could extend the ride duration with an additional show in that area, though designing it so you couldn't hear what was happening in the ride chamber could be an issue.
djtruefitt
TS Team
I think the only problem with waiting in the cave section would be you would hear the very loud countdown/bangs and would probably notice the strobe lights under the door. As the audio in the cav section is very quiet with the dripping water.
Tim
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Air / Blue Fire
Thanks for the reply John. I probably should have just copied it across but I was worried it wouldn't make sense without being on the same page as Part 1 and 2.
A few things I wanted to respond to:
That's an interesting theory with the progress bar and the videos length. I hadn’t thought about it like that but remember spotting the bar. I also forgot to acknowledge the crab in-joke
The overuse of effects was something that my whole group commented on but I think my real issue is they're just used without much thought to how they are used. I'm not quite sure how to better describe what I mean but if you imagine riding Hex and instead of a well timed lightning strike you just heard it constantly. It wouldn't have quite the same effect. Even if there was only one effect working I’d still fell overused, even more so in fact.
But you make a good point about the effects reliability. I would like to note that by using them more sparingly it should increase the effects reliability. But of course it all comes down to how well the effects are maintained, something most British parks seem to struggle with.
I also didn't mention the Disco Eggs and lack of other visible effects because I haven’t made my mind up on it yet. I think I share your view although once again I feel they could make it so much better by choosing the right time to make certain eggs appear rather than them being just lit and unlit.
Also thefatone I'm fairly sure John is right about the cave being empty. His throughput calculations are well known and logically it makes sense that the cave would be empty for at least 2 or 3 minutes while the rides in motion and pre-show is showing. I think that the opp who waits in the cave has to load the ride before he can return to the cave but that should only use up a minute of the time you could have.
As for sound I have a feeling that the cave could have been sound proofed. I'm not sure if it is but on one of my rides we were waiting there for at least 2 minutes and didn't hear a thing.
A few things I wanted to respond to:
That's an interesting theory with the progress bar and the videos length. I hadn’t thought about it like that but remember spotting the bar. I also forgot to acknowledge the crab in-joke
The overuse of effects was something that my whole group commented on but I think my real issue is they're just used without much thought to how they are used. I'm not quite sure how to better describe what I mean but if you imagine riding Hex and instead of a well timed lightning strike you just heard it constantly. It wouldn't have quite the same effect. Even if there was only one effect working I’d still fell overused, even more so in fact.
But you make a good point about the effects reliability. I would like to note that by using them more sparingly it should increase the effects reliability. But of course it all comes down to how well the effects are maintained, something most British parks seem to struggle with.
I also didn't mention the Disco Eggs and lack of other visible effects because I haven’t made my mind up on it yet. I think I share your view although once again I feel they could make it so much better by choosing the right time to make certain eggs appear rather than them being just lit and unlit.
Also thefatone I'm fairly sure John is right about the cave being empty. His throughput calculations are well known and logically it makes sense that the cave would be empty for at least 2 or 3 minutes while the rides in motion and pre-show is showing. I think that the opp who waits in the cave has to load the ride before he can return to the cave but that should only use up a minute of the time you could have.
As for sound I have a feeling that the cave could have been sound proofed. I'm not sure if it is but on one of my rides we were waiting there for at least 2 minutes and didn't hear a thing.
James
TS Founding Member
Tim said:
That's a good description, and pretty much how I feel with Sub-Terra's effects.
I just find the back pokers and legs tickers a bit excessive, the initial shock is good, although with them constantly moving the effect wears off and for me it started to become a bit uncomfortable. If they varied it a bit, turning them off then back on - then it could work to a better degree.
Dave
TS Founding Member
From what i can gather the new throughput for Terry is about 650 which dropped from around 800 before the changes. They can't hold you in the cave as you would hear the noise of the previous ride. Obviously that highlights the main problem Sub-Terra has had in that the planning was poor. If a genuine enthusiastic designer of rides was involved they would have considered things such as throughputs in greater depth.
Sam
TS Member
The ride is great now, I really enjoy it.
But I still absolutely detest the staff on it. The horrible way they shout at you, pointless, meaningless abuse. They're not even consistent. They're nearly always quite shoddy and sloppy about how they 'act', frequently breaking character, or moving in an awkward way, or just saying something weird.
I actually resent being shouted at like that. It makes me physically angry, and makes me want to rebel and start shouting back about what a load of crap it all is. It's a shame, because from the first lift onwards, I really enjoy the ride now.
But I still absolutely detest the staff on it. The horrible way they shout at you, pointless, meaningless abuse. They're not even consistent. They're nearly always quite shoddy and sloppy about how they 'act', frequently breaking character, or moving in an awkward way, or just saying something weird.
I actually resent being shouted at like that. It makes me physically angry, and makes me want to rebel and start shouting back about what a load of crap it all is. It's a shame, because from the first lift onwards, I really enjoy the ride now.
Sazzle
TS Administrator
- Favourite Ride
- Steel Vengeance
Clearly you don't work in customer service, Sam - folk in that line of work get a Sub-Terra level of abuse day in day out, you're just not used to it (that's a JOKE by the way!!).
I genuinely enjoyed my last ride on Sub-Terra - we were the last tower to drop, and the first ones back up, and I loved seeing everyone arrive in the (decidedly sparse) bottom chamber.
The queue moved decidedly slow at one point, and I can only link that to the fast track queue (there were, AFAIK, no break downs) - I hope that's sorted soon, if it hasn't been already :-/.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
(that's a JOKE by the way!!).I genuinely enjoyed my last ride on Sub-Terra - we were the last tower to drop, and the first ones back up, and I loved seeing everyone arrive in the (decidedly sparse) bottom chamber.
The queue moved decidedly slow at one point, and I can only link that to the fast track queue (there were, AFAIK, no break downs) - I hope that's sorted soon, if it hasn't been already :-/.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk