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Secret Weapon 7 Discussion

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Competent engineers can find solutions to such things like that. Rides we have now would have been deemed impossible by some people decades ago.

Even if it were controlled/trimmed, the title of steepest/world's first might still be bestowed to them (although I dislike the concept).

We do have these already, remember:

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Incidentally, why aren't they considered the steepest drops at present?
 
I'm no physicist, but my gut feeling when I look at Tom's design for a '360° drop' is that the reason it's never been done before is because the forces involved would make you unconscious.

I would guess that that element is simply impossible without intolerable forces on the rider at the bottom of the drop. I may be wrong though. But if it is possible, it certainly doesn't look fun to ride. :)
 
Hanging upside down is tolerable but if you applied a greater positive g-force to someone who is upside down you get serious issues with blood-flow to the brain. Its similar to applying strong negative G's to someone sat upright hence why you never get a ride that really goes above -1G when you can practically go +5G.

The blood vessels in the old brain are not something you want to put undue stress on!
 
Yeah, I can't see a ride that induces nose bleeds and eye pop-outs being very popular :p
 
The outside loop was suggested quite a while ago, though it was said that the forces would probably be too much for it to happen well/at all. With a lapbar you risk pulling the upper body up too forcefully while the lower is fixed in place (Look at the boy on Paris' ToT). Use OTSRs and you're putting all the force onto the shoulders, which would be far from comfortable. If you were going to control the speed throughout it may be possible, but then all effect would be lost.

Personally, I'm not 100% sold on the "washing machine" theory as it's been called. There just seems like too much to go wrong. The more I think about it, the more complications arise. Turning 180 degrees wouldn't be too hard. But with a 360 degree roll there needs to be enough strength to lift the track and shuttle back up on the other side. A fully loaded standard EF shuttle has a lot of weight to it. That's a lot of force to be able to turn it back the right way... Think of how much force Th13teen uses to lift the track back up. Add a train and people onto that and you've made the job 100x harder!

An interesting point was raised by someone earlier though which I think deserves a bit more exploring. Someone suggested why does the "special element" have to be at the start? I mean, sure, looking at the plans we're assuming that the long straight before entering the building is the final breakrun, and will be directly followed by the station.

What if that was actually only a long MCBR? And the actual station is at the base of lift 1, just inside the building? Suddenly a lot more could happen in the building. With the station in the bottom corner and out of the way there's suddenly a lot more height available indoors. I wonder if reading into the planning document we may not enter the building on the upper level, before entering a beyond vertical drop. Considering the size of the hole, plus the height of the building above ground level I wonder if there may be room inside for one now. This could then be followed by a few inversions, in an attempt to make up the final number. If I remember rightly, Mystery Mine works in a similar way doesn't it? They have the drop midway through the ride. I don't see what's to say the same can't happen here personally...
 
You could control the descent speed with trims and have the ascent and exit at a different curvature and height. It's certainly possible for engineers to overcome this.

Negative Gs in the upward position are primarily held back by stress on the upstops and the track itself as opposed to a danger to the riders. Brief pops of considrable force are known to be not dangerous to humans. Time is considerably more important than numbers in terms of what would be dangerous to humans on a rollercoaster.

Whatever the "world beating" element is, it has to be marketable (that is relatively easy to to describe in a single line/phrase of text). World's steepest or world's first 360-degree drop would surely be a marketing dream for them and it could never be beaten, only equalled.

I think this ride is going to give us both an exciting and unique outside layout which will have been designed by John Wardley, AS WELL AS some sort of marketing hook/gimmicky feature inside which might also turn out to be a great experience. Combined with great artistic direction that we've had tastes of so far, I'm quite optimistic for the whole thing - whatever it is.
 
Personally, I don't think they can call it a drop if it has an upwards section though. It's just an outside loop. Unless the shuttle is continually loosing height it's not really dropping is it? This is more of a drop and assent in one element.
 
I think I've worked out how to overcome Ian's flaws with the 'washing machine theory'. Instead of turning 360°, the track turns 180°, so the shuttle is entirely inverted, and then travels forward into a half-loop, which sends it speeding out of the building, into the first lift. I'll try and draw on Paint what I mean. :)
 
Here is my prediction for SW7. At least, my prediction for how to make the 'washing machine theory' work, anyway. :)

CMOtA.jpg


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Thoughts?
 
I desperately hope there is a launch into the second lift hill - I've been thinking about it for a few days now and it seems more and more plausible than when suggested a while back. I imagine it would be done with some LIM's along the track and it would be powered so that the train would crest the lift hill at a relatively slow pace, limiting the G-force that would make it uncomfortable any faster. The launch itself would have to be quite powerful also in order to achieve the speed to make it up the vertical slope.

It'd just be another thrilling element to add to an already fantastic looking ride.
 
Sam: Nice idea, but it's basically a more complicated way of achieving the drop which The Swarm has? I'm not sure what they'd call that or how they'd market it either.
 
Negative G's never go beyond -2g, floating air time is around 0g and ejector airtime is between -1g and -1.5g. The risk isn't mechanical on up stops, if a wheel bogey can withstand +5g on the running wheels there is no reason not to have the same capacity on the up-stops and flying coasters prove you can have both up stop and running wheels being interchangeable.

And if you trimmed the train down the loop it wouldn't have the energy to retun up the loop so you end up with a screaming squirrel element.
 
Sam's idea is a good one, but you wouldn't need the rotating piece of track, you could mimic swarms 'thorpe park inversion' or whatever they called it.

edit; as Tom said.

Wouldn't be a world beater or worlds first either, although could be a seller...
 
Tom said:
Sam: Nice idea, but it's basically a more complicated way of achieving the drop which The Swarm has? I'm not sure what they'd call that or how they'd market it either.
Click to expand...

If they had really good effects during the rotation, it could be absolutely amazing! Especially if when you arrived and stopped, it looked like a dead end ahead of you. And then, as you start rotating, dread-filled music swells in. The half-loop is lit up bright in red, so you see the horror of it as you approach 180°.

It could be absolutely amazing! Very similar to the Swarm you're right, but a much smaller, more intense and dramatic version. :)
 
I suggested the same idea a while back. The only difference I had is that the rotating track is tilted forwards into the loop slightly. Otherwise what do you do if the track flips and the kickers fail? You've got a shuttle of people hanging upside down :p

When I suggested the idea a while back I think it was BigDave who suggested placing the rotating track inside a madhouse esque drum to screw with the riders heads. Why do they feel like they're turning upside down when the room all looks fine?

Could open up endless potential for effects and a show piece.
 
This may sound like a daft question, but has it been confirmed which way we're spinning? Are we going barrel roll style or more forward roll?

Am I the only one that's thinking of a gyroscope type effect as well?
 
I would like to see a forward roll. Like Gravity Max, only 90' further.... then line up with the half loop and move on from there.
 
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