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Thatcher's dead

willb said:
TheMan,

You are assuming I'm a Thatcherite, I am not. What I am is someone who tries to form an opinion from unbiased sources.

I've seen those charts quite a lot over the past days since her death, and one can easily use them as an easy way to trash the years thatcher was in government.

They are however, meaningless with out knowing exactly if they are as a consequence of her leadership or consequential of the chance in social morality and the modernisation of the world.

What is also interesting is to see if these trends presented in the charts vary before and after their selected capture.

The equality index for instance, when labour was in power (Tony Blair). They changed the tax structure to help the poor and heavily tax the rich, but the paradox is that throughout their government the distance between poor and rich kept going.

What is a good use of time is to research if her policies directly effected the points you make and if they did, how.
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Great post that willb - I wont be doing that, because I get plenty of stick for being too detailed at times in here, hence my views are more basic opinion based posts nowadays lol!

You are right though for the record I think it was too big a change to be able to reverse with regards Labour, also being as they plonked themselves firmly in the centre by this point, they wouldn't want to anyway. A true socialist government with heavy red ideals were never going to get into power, Blair knew this, as did the party - so the gap would always continue to widen as capitalism had too firm a grip and way to many interested parties.

Labour would never have succeeded if they hadn't sold out their primary principles of old to accommodate this.

New Labour was never really Labour at all in many ways, but I'd detest a full left socialist government anyway. Principles yes, I agree, but practically for the greater good of the UK as a whole? Not a chance. Too old fashioned and out dated.

For me, I feel we need a Green/Liberal coalition now - perhaps with a central Labour base as all of those are for the general people, and each have policies that can be radical and not damaging, bring equality, and fresh thinking.

The thought of Cameron and Osborne without the Dems moderating influence right now, is a terrifying prospect! The longer this goes on, the more grateful to them I am.

A one party government however now, especially someone like Mrs T (or arguably Blair), is not what we need. Coalitions make sense.

Agree with Plastic Person above too. Some nice balanced sensible discussion taking place, this is how we become more informed and balanced. Enjoying this regardless of our differences of opinion.
 
ChocolateStarfish said:
He can't because he didn't, "me dad sed she wor a bad un" springs to mind.
If you do a bit of "balanced" research you soon come to the conclusion that she was the best PM we had since Churchill, maybe ever.
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You don't know me. You don't know whether I was around or not, or what my father's opinion of he was. It's irrelevant anyway. Right at the start of the topic the 'you don't know, you weren't there' fallacy was dismissed. I know what went on in Chile under Maggie's mate Pinochet and know that was bad, despite not being near South America at the time. And unlike Pinochet, the devastation Thatcher caused is clear to see all around me, even to this day. Her economics led to the banking crisis. She ruined northern cities, she helped cover up the Hillsborough disaster, allowed her media friends to taint innocent people as murderers.

And your 'dole monkey' comment is disgusting. It's exactly what's wrong with this country. We demonise the poor and unfortunate, the Tories love nothing more than to turn the population against each other by painting the weakest in society as the bad guys. They want us to believe the unemployed are lazy, feckless and evil, when that's not true at all. That's Thatcher's legacy.
 
Blaze said:
ChocolateStarfish said:
He can't because he didn't, "me dad sed she wor a bad un" springs to mind.
If you do a bit of "balanced" research you soon come to the conclusion that she was the best PM we had since Churchill, maybe ever.
Click to expand...
You don't know me. You don't know whether I was around or not, or what my father's opinion of he was. It's irrelevant anyway. Right at the start of the topic the 'you don't know, you weren't there' fallacy was dismissed. I know what went on in Chile under Maggie's mate Pinochet and know that was bad, despite not being near South America at the time. And unlike Pinochet, the devastation Thatcher caused is clear to see all around me, even to this day. Her economics led to the banking crisis. She ruined northern cities, she helped cover up the Hillsborough disaster, allowed her media friends to taint innocent people as murderers.

And your 'dole monkey' comment is disgusting. It's exactly what's wrong with this country. We demonise the poor and unfortunate, the Tories love nothing more than to turn the population against each other by painting the weakest in society as the bad guys. They want us to believe the unemployed are lazy, feckless and evil, when that's not true at all. That's Thatcher's legacy.
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One word disproves that last point, "Philpot"

Thatcher developed a help yourself couture, Blair developed a something for nothing one.
 
Philpot is an evil man. What he did had nothing to do with benefits. It's pathetic the right use the death of children to score points about benefits and paint everyone who claims them as a would-be killer of children.

If Philpot shows all unemployed people are murderers then Shipman shows all middle class people are serial killers.
 
I'll just say something about this, even though I wasn't alive when Margret Thatcher was in power.

She did do some good things, such as paying off debt and at least attempting to make the country rich and powerful again, but she also did bad (just like many people do), such as covering up Hillsborough and destroying communities.

In my eyes, she was neither a good person or a bad, but it seems that the wrong decisions that she made are remembered much more than the good that she did do.

Many people seem to base their opinion on what family members say, hence why there is such a split between whether she was a good PM or not. If your family agreed with her, then, naturally, so would you too, but if they didn't, then you wouldn't either.

I think some people do go too far with what they say about Margret Thatcher, but if they can back up what they say, then fair enough.

This is why I don't like politics. ;)
 
Blaze said:
Philpot is an evil man. What he did had nothing to do with benefits. It's pathetic the right use the death of children to score points about benefits and paint everyone who claims them as a would-be killer of children.

If Philpot shows all unemployed people are murderers then Shipman shows all middle class people are serial killers.
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Your putting words in mouth there, and Philpot wasn't evil, he was your typical dole deadbeat who was so thick that he thought by setting fire to his house he would get a bigger one for free.
He tried to use his kids as a weapon and was so thick he killed them by mistake.
And he's not a one off the country is full of them.

Team Edit: As per this post please ensure contributions are sensible. Outlandish statements such as this come across as trollish and are not acceptable on TowersStreet.
 
How many do you know? Forget your Mail rhetoric, Philpot was a one off.

I hope you don't lose your job and have to rely on JSA to get by. You'd change your view then.
 
How many do I know? What personally? Or how many do I see outside of school gates or in shopping centres?
Everyone knows they exist and were a growing breed, come on, your from the north west for Christ sake, open your eyes son.
 
And you KNOW they're not looking for a job? You KNOW they're not unable to work?

Typical Tory, judgemental behaviour, looking down and distrusting anyone below them.

The government's own figure for benefit fraud is 0.8%.

This is getting way off topic, but much more money is lost from tax evasion and avoidance from millionaires and corporations.
 
Ha ha come on take the blinkers off the national was last week!

Your right on the point of tax evasion but it doesn't make either right does it!

Tax avoidance is legal so shouldn't be included.
 
As Dave and multiple team members have already requested, please can we:

- Stay on topic as things are really going off on a tangent at times
- Leave any personal comments out of this topic. If you wish to argue with each other, do so in private.
- As we ask in our Member Expectations, please be respectful when replying to comments. There's a very cocky/unfriendly tone in a lot of these posts which is not welcome anywhere on TowersStreet.
- Leave the trollish/outlandish comments out of this topic.

We will, and indeed have already issued warnings for those who continue to ignore the team's requests in this topic. I know this is an emotive subject, but surely people are capable of debating in a sensible manner?

Thank you.
 
Wow, the woman only died a day ago but this topic already had 15 pages!

And I must say, those 15 pages contain some very juicy discussion indeed even if some people's viewpoints do strike me as a little..er...worrying.
 
It seems the police have already started pre-arresting people they think might want to protest at her funeral, just like they did in advance of the royal wedding last year. :eek: That's right, they are locking up people who might want to protest. Not bomb, or attack, protest.

Her legacy lives on.
 
Or will it be the army dressed up as the police?

I doubt the police will be trying to stop the party in Liverpool. Sgt. George's Hall, Lime Street, if anyone's interested in toasting the grim reaper with me. ;)
 
DiogoJ42 said:
It seems the police have already started pre-arresting people they think might want to protest at her funeral, just like they did in advance of the royal wedding last year. :eek:
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Got some sauce for that?
 
DiogoJ42 said:
It seems the police have already started pre-arresting people they think might want to protest at her funeral, just like they did in advance of the royal wedding last year. :eek: That's right, they are locking up people who might want to protest. Not bomb, or attack, protest.

Her legacy lives on.
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Now that is an absolute disgrace, if you live your life as a public figure in that fashion, you also accept the right for people to both protest, and congratulate in equal measure. That is something you must accept, so long as it does not cross the line, there is absolutely no democratic reason for this to happen.

That's disgusting, whoever took that decision has no place in public office.
 
pluk said:
Got some sauce for that?
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Sure:
1280-2-liquiglide-ketchup-bottle.jpg


;)

A quick google reveals many sites stating the police are planning to do this. I have seen on various conspiracy sites that one or two arrests have already taken place. But there's no point quoting them as a source because they will just be dismissed ;)

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